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How Do You Kill A Gutstar?

ogres tactics

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#1 Steel Rune

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 04:07 PM

A week or two ago I brought my Dwarfs to the local gaminig center. I just slapped a list together for a friendly game, so I knew that I was in trouble when my opponent said "Oh, I don't have time to make a list, so I'll just use my tournament list." Grrrr

 

Predictably, he kicked my butt. He used a Gutstar with around twenty or more Ironguts with a tyrant in a 2000 point game. He also had some Mornfangs and some Lead-belchers (or whatever they're called). My Organ gun and thunderes were able to handle the lead-belchers, and my Long-beards outmanuvered his mournfangs and wipped'em out.

 

But how on earth do you stop a Gutstar? It killed a total of four units, all in one round of combat. It had more than sixty wounds and a un-godly number of attacks on the charge. I'm fine with strong units, but what burns me is that my opponent used no strategy what-so-ever and I did not enjoy playing him. How do I knock that smile of his face?



#2 Grim1

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:06 PM

anvil, dragon slayer (sacrificial) redirectors, mr challenge/slow, gyrocopter march blocking all will "slow a gutstar" from scoring points. str 5 grudgethrower, cannon and flame cannon?? kill everyone else gaining points.

has worked for me in the past to get a result, he thought i was being cheesy though (can you believe it).

normally though you wouldn't have many of these available to you, but if you tailor it stop to ogres i'd include all 4.



#3 Swordthain

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 03:42 AM

First, don't let him get the charge. The impact hits will destroy you. I know that's easier said than done. Cannons can make a huge difference, since each shot can potentially knock off 9-12 wounds. Think what two Cannons can do to that unit! I recently took three Cannons to a tournament. They came in quite handy. I'm planning on painting up my third Cannon very soon! In one game, I did face an Ogre Kingdoms army, and I am so glad I took those Cannons!



#4 silverback

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 04:35 AM

You really don't want to fight the star if you can help it. You want to redirect it or avoid it while you eliminate all the smaller units. Once that is done its about concentrated fire power and setting him up for a multi-charge. Their armor save is only 5+ so thunderers and organ guns and that sort of thing will really hurt. Same goes for a grudge thrower with the +strength runes.

 

Some canny setup helps too; Gut stars are kinda hard to maneuver so if you can create choke points with terrain it makes them easier to avoid.

 

 



#5 mojoslayer

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 05:58 AM

I used a gyrocopter and an anvil along with 28 hammerers and beat a gutstar, I won't go into to many details as I used the terrain and the gyro to expose his flank, then marched the hammerers to where they could get a flank charge and hoped I did not roll a 1 for the anvil.  I rolled a 2 and they made their 7 inch charge. 

 

The hammerers were in a 7x4 formation.  He moved his Slaughtermaster into combat as I needed 5's to hit him but he did not move his BSB as he was worried I could snipe him.  His Slaughtermaster killed 2 Hammerers and stomped 1 while his Two remaining Ironguts killed another 3 and stomped 1 for a total of 7 wounds.  The way I was positioned I had to direct 4 attacks against the slaughtermaster.  I wounded the Slaughtermaster once, and caused 6 wounds on the ironguts with the remaining 10 hammerers for a total of 7 wounds.  He had a BSB, but I had a charge, I also had a flank and two ranks meaning I won combat by 3 and I had the same number of ranks as him, he then failed his re-rollable 5 and ran like little snotlings only to be ran down by my Hammerers!

 

So the answer is flanks, their flanks can be vulnerable.   


Edited by mojoslayer, 28 February 2013 - 06:00 AM.


#6 Grim1

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 08:35 AM

very well done mojo.



#7 Bonecrusher

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 08:39 AM

IHe moved his Slaughtermaster into combat as I needed 5's to hit him but he did not move his BSB as he was worried I could snipe him.    

Why did you need 5's to hit his slaughter master?



#8 mojoslayer

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 04:35 PM

Fencers blades gave him WS 10,  so I needed 4's but then he had glittering Scales making him a further -1 to hit.  It is a dirty build as anything with a WS 4 or less will need a 6 to hit.

  



#9 Grim1

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:34 PM

dirty, dirty ogre players. ogre fencers with glittering scales.... as if a slaughtermaster could abide the shame of such a fighting style. He should be eaten alive by his own unit.

why do people do this sort of stuff, ogres have enough powerful units that fit their army stylistically why mess about with things that don't. maximum disrespect to other players and the game designers in my opinion.



#10 Steel Rune

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 02:36 AM

dirty, dirty ogre players. ogre fencers with glittering scales.... as if a slaughtermaster could abide the shame of such a fighting style. He should be eaten alive by his own unit.

why do people do this sort of stuff, ogres have enough powerful units that fit their army stylistically why mess about with things that don't. maximum disrespect to other players and the game designers in my opinion.

This is why I want to beat the local Ogre player so bad. Its not their power I object to, its the lack of any strategy needed for some of their lists. They really are a cheesy army. 



#11 mojoslayer

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:23 AM

Well it could have been worse, he could have had a firebelly in the unit, I never would have won combat if he had breathed fire on me.  Another tactic is to take two gyrocopters and a cheap (if there is such a thing) unit of scouts to redirect him like mad while you engage the rest of his army.  A conga lined slayer unit with a couple of giant slayers would be handy, or an unkillable dwarf lord on shield bearers in a lord pedo formation can also work.  



#12 silverback

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 05:10 AM

Slaughter Masters are just plain hard to kill no matter what you do. With 5 wounds the chance of anything killing it in one round of combat are slim, and then as he casts he heals himself up. I play ogres as my main army and once held a bloodthirster in combat for 7 rounds of combat ultimately killing it with the added combat resolution of hitting it in the flank. He was "I swear too much"!

 

That hard to hit build is popular but I can't abide not having a decent ward save.

 

 



#13 Bonecrusher

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 08:03 AM

Three cannons shooting straight through his unit? Solid block in front perhaps a lordpedo, with a great axe with MR kragg the grim, snorri spanglehelm, and fury as well as tank runes. Maybe give the unit a banner with MR of slowness. Challenge when he gets into combat limiting his attacks.

 

Though problem with the ogre FAQ is the allowing butchers and slaughter master to wear magic armour, they even say its against what they wanted, its the FAQ you can just say they can't.



#14 Blackthorne

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 08:32 PM

My main opponent for a while runs a gutstar list. the problem with flanking them and trying to run them down is if they have the crown of command and banner of discipline. Then they will hold, then reform, then you're in trouble.

 

Also, cannons are very ineffective against ogre units in general. If you don't kill the first ogre outright, then the cannon doesn't bounce through. So with rolling to wound and then d6 wounds, you have a 44% chance that the cannonball won't bounce through and hit more guys...not great, especially once you think about most units being 3ish models deep and their big bases meaning you might also only be bouncing through two guys anyways.

 

In my experience, the thing you need to do, if you want to engage the deathstar is hit it on two different sides, but not the front. Really, it's more effective to avoid it and pick up the points elsewhere. But, if you have cleared out some of the other stuff and want to try, you need to make sure that it won't be getting all the support attacks or you're gonna be hurting. So I find longbeard rangers in the flank/rear together with either a support unit in the other flank or just a lone thane with defensive gear. You have to make sure to engage two sides though because that prevents the combat reform. Otherwise, it'll be a slugfest and they will probably win seeing as that unit alone is over half the points of their army.







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