15 replies to this topic

[thorpyuk]

Hi fellow Dwarves!

It's been about 15-20 years since i last played a game of Warhammer Fantasy. Imagine my shock when I started to look into it around 4 months ago and discovered it had been discontinued 6-7 years ago! I always used to play with Dwarves, and love the infantry/war machine heavy list. I'm pretty sure 6th edition was the version i'd used to collect and play them previously. I also had an empire army that I collected and painted, but never fielded.

 

Anyway, after originally deciding to start on 7th edition rules, i've changed my mind and bought an 8th edition rulebook as my brother is collecting High Elves and has been using an 8th edition army book with 8th edition-specific rules in! (boo hiss)

 

I've been steadily picking up minis on ebay and have amassed a reasonable amount of figures, some very well painted, some new and unassembled, but mostly assembled and undercoated or unpainted. I've also started to paint some of them myself - mostly based on the 'battle for skull pass' colourscheme (i'll post some pictures at a later date).

 

I've also been reading some of the excellent guides on here after suffering a few heavy defeats to my HE brother (although admittedly we've never actually fielded a balanced battle as we're playing a custom-campaign manager i've put together on excel to manage campaigns for 2-5 players). The last game he had just over 2,400 points and i had 1,500 and got butchered, but did everything wrong - army selection, tactics etc. I setup as a castle with only 1 warmachine... i know rookie mistake right? I also forgot about the 'shieldwall' rule, and didn't know i got supporting attacks lol.

 

I've a couple of questions i was hoping someone might be able to answer? Firstly, newbie qn - what's Dawi / elgi mean?

2nd question - does the 'Master rune of alaric the mad' also cancel any ward saves, or only armour saves?

 

I'm sure i'll have more questions once i get more into the 8th edition - i'm in the process of reading the rulebook through!

[Kallstrom]

Hey!

Great to hear that you have returned to the hobby!

Finding the right balance for a friendly game can be hard. That both lists are about the same amount of points is the most common way to go about it, but all the armies have various strengths and weaknesses that makes it hard for some armies to fight other armies even if they are on the same total points level.
High Elves were often ranked as the best (or second best compared to Dark Elves according to some) in 8th edition, and dwarfs were more of a middle-tier army that had a hard time in some matchups and had a difficulty when trying to go for big wins. The dwarf army lends itself nicely to playing in a typical castle formation with all the dwarf units, but that playstyle can be lackluster to play for some dwarf players and more than often for the opponent to face. A dwarf castle is hard to shift, after all.

I recommend that if you want more balanced games between you guys that you as the dwarf player at least has the same amount of points to play with! 
The rules and playstyles for both of you guys will be picked up and improved along the way, and eventually you might reach a place where you find other ways to make things balanced (or unbalanced, if that is what you prefer). A campaign is a good excuse to play some unbalanced scenarios, or find other ways to make it more balanced between the two fighting armies!

Dawi means "dwarfs", and Elgi means "elves". 

For the other question, that master rune is about negating the opponent's armor save. Usually it says if an effect is negating an armor save or a ward save (or both). If it is both it usually says something along the lines of "negates saves of any kind", or something of similar wording.

Feel free to ask more questions if you feel so inclined along the way!

By the way, I hope that you post some pictures of your dwarfs once you have painted them as you said - I am looking forward to seeing that bfsp color scheme.

 

[thorpyuk]

Hi Kallstrom, thanks for your reply  I did worry many wouldn't be checking in on here..

It's a good point about the points balance - it's just because he's not met my 3,500 point army sat just outside one of his castles yet! I've gone with the following, based on reading a lot of the recommendations and guides on what works/doesn't work on here - great resource (based on 8th edition rulebook) :

 

Dwarf Lord in unkillable build (GW, shieldbearers, 2xRO Iron, 1xRO Fortitude, 3xRO Warding) - 316 pts

Thane (BSB, Shield, MRO Grundi) - 153 pts

Master Engineer (brace of pistols, RO Stone) - 85 pts

Master Engineer (brace of pistols, RO Stone) - 85 pts

30 Longbeards (shields, music, std, veteran, RO Stoicism) - 455 pts

16 Quarrellers (shields, music) - 218 pts

16 Quarrellers (shields, music) - 218 pts

30 Hammerers (shields, music, std, veteran, RO fury on veteran, MRO Groth one eye) - 580 pts

4 Gyrocopters (2 with vanguard) - 360 pts

Cannon (RO Forging) - 145 pts

Cannon (RO Forging) - 145 pts

Grudge Thrower (RO accuracy, RO penetrating, RO forging) - 170 pts

Organ Gun (RO Accuracy) - 145 pts

Organ Gun (RO Accuracy) - 145 pts

15 Irondrakes (music, std, veteran, 2x RO slowness) - 305 pts

 

That should cause him some pain across the board! We're not playing the magic phase so no need for runesmiths.

I'll entrench one cannon and one organ gun and use my ME's on the organ guns. He likes to take either a dragon or a phoenix, so i needed something that can hurt those. He'll also have a unit of dragon prince cavalry to deal with and then a smattering of archers / seaguard and a big unit of swordmasters... what do you think?

 

I'll definitely get some images up - what's the best way to share them? In terms of models, here's (approximately!) what i've got:

 

2 x Thane's (both excellently painted, one by myself)

1 x Daemonslayer (unpainted)

1 x Master Engineer (well painted by me)

1 x runesmith (unpainted)

12 x slayers (unpainted)

2 x cannons (both well painted)

1 x organ gun (part painted)

2 x gyrocopters (1 old model but well painted, the other the latest model but unpainted)

20 quarrellers - (pro painted, not by me!)

16 quarrellers (unpainted)

26 hammerers (20 well painted, 6 unpainted)

5 Ironbreakers (unpainted)

15 irondrakes (unpainted)

25 warriors (around 11 well painted by me)

38 warriors (excellently painted, not by me!)

20 GW warriors (6 painted by me)

20 GW warriors (about a dozen well painted not by me)

20 thunderers (7 finished, 4 part finished by me)

16 thunderers (excellently painted not by me)

1 grudge thrower (average painting - will probably strip & repaint at some point)

1 flame cannon (pro painted not by me)

1 grudge pony (unpainted)

 

Phew, think that's about it! I've got some scenery bits i've been collecting too over the last few weeks...

Thanks for answering my questions - couple of other quick ones if that's ok - what strength hits can destroy walls deemed as soft or hard cover?

Also, if models with 2 attacks are killed in hand-to-hand combat, do they lose their supporting attack model (1 attack), or their front rank model (2 attacks)?

 

Thanks so much

[Kallstrom]

Some of us both old and new swings by from time to time. Hopefully more activity will come once The Old World is released by Games Workshop and we will have a forum filled with dwarf discussions again.  

I am not master of list building, but I like to hear what people think about when building their own lists since I am interested in game design overall. 

The unkillable lord seems like a true and tried way of building one's general. Do you find that your opponent tries to steer away from that character during the game? Do you feel like the character adds to your game in a way that makes it worth investing in the things that makes him unkillable if he has a hard time getting into combats (like most dwarfs do with their short legs)?

You seem to rely heavily on shooting, both from rank and file troops and war machines - is that you preferred playstyle or is it because of some other reason? How do you go about playing with those units, do you castle up in one part of your deployment zone and wait for the enemy to come to you?


Also, how come that you guys are not using the magic phase, is it because you just don't happen to field anything that contributes in that phase of the game or because of a homebrewed rule for some reason? High Elves are really good with magic so I wonder why your opponent choose to not bring any wizards.

From the list you have shown and from the list you described that your opponent use I'd say that your list will be hard for your opponent to counter. That is a lot of shooting to march through, and 5 war machines is usually 2-3 more that most dwarfs tend to bring. It can surely be effective, but it could also swing the other way around if you get unlucky with some key dice rolls. War machines are mostly used to threaten monsters, characters and other things so they do not roam around the board as freely and safely. War machines are also used to thin on the ranks and wounds of various tougher foes.
Overinvesting in war machines can be a gamble - sometimes it can bring you total control over the flow of the battle, and they can even be worth their own cost in points, but it can also backfire and make it hard to withstand the coming assault if the opponent manages to shut the shooting phase down somehow.

There are various way to share pictures to this website. Personally I load the pictures up from my computer to the gallery section of this website, and then I link the URL of any of the pictures to the "Image" function of a post (the little green postcard-like symbol in the functions menu) to show it off. 
It is often, in my opinion, a safer option since over time if you use another website to host your pictures and link them over to Bugmans there can be a change of a policy or similar that breaks the link and that can make the images lost forever for any future dwarf fan that stumbles upon your thread. Finding a blog filled with pictures that says "image link broken" is always a bit sad, so its best to try to avoid that. That is at least my tip!

To answer your other questions. If I remember correctly it does not matter if a terrain piece is soft or hard cover when it comes to it being "destroyable" or not. Most terrain pieces does not have wounds or a toughness value, but those that do work just as other models when it comes to wounding and destroying them. Buildings tend to be T10 with 10 Wounds, for example. Walls is another example that works differently from the rest, I think it says something about that in the artillery rules of the main rule book. I believe that fences/walls can be destroyed by a cannon ball that is Strength 10. If a cannon ball would hit a wall, like an entrenchment, the entrenchment would be destroyed but it would stop the cannon ball in its tracks.

Otherwise it is up to you and your opponent to decide what kind of terrain that be destroyed and not. It can also be worth to mention that in most tournament settings there is a house rule that says that hills are infinite tall when it comes to line of sight. That means that even if a monster or similar can be seen with the "true line of sight" rule when it stands behind a hill it still counts as not being able to be seen by the cannon. This is to give monsters at least somewhere where they can hide from cannons and the like. So whenever there is a hill between two units that stands clearly away from each side from a hill they can't see eachother - no matter how big they are. Might be worth playing with to give your opponent a chance when you play with all those cool war machines.

I am not sure I understand your other question, I'm afraid. In 8th edition you remove casualties from the "back" of the unit, compared to 6th edition where you removed from the front rank. All infantry sized units (20mm and 25mm bases) can make supporting attacks. That means that the front figures get to fight with their full attack stat value (so 2 attacks, if we take your example), but still the units in the rank behind the first can only make one supporting attack (no matter how many attacks they have on their profile). So even if they have 2 attacks the supporting figures (the ones standing exactly behind the first line of figures in the front rank) will only ever make 1 attack.So un a unit that is 5 wide and 2 deep (so 10 figures) where every model has 2 attacks, they get to make a total of 15 attacks if they all get to attack from the front. 10 from the models in the first rank that has 2 attacks each, and 5 attacks in total as supporting attacks from the second rank.

Monsterous infantry and Monsterous cavalry (there are none in the dwarf or high elf book in 8th edition if I remember correctly) that are on either 40mm or 50mm bases gets to make monsterous supporting attacks with up to 3 attacks per model that gets to make an supporting attack.

Some thing can modify these situations. If a unit is armed with spears they get to make an extra supporting attack from the third rank of figures (but only if their unit is charged by an enemy from the front, if I recall it right). There are also some units that have special rules that can modify the number of supporting attacks a unit can make, but those rules are very rare.

Cavalry models (25x50mm bases) can also make supporting attacks but only from the riders. Horses are not able to make supporting attacks themselves.

Was that what your question was about, or could you elaborate it further if it was about something else?

Cheers!

[thorpyuk]

Thanks Kallistrom, that's a really thorough response!

On the unkillable lord, i've not used him before so honestly i don't know - i'm due to fight my brother on Monday night so will let you know how he goes... i'm putting him on my flank to try and protect it from flyers / cavalry

I do like shooting units i must admit... i started with loads of big quarreller units but i've quickly discovered that they can't be relied upon to do anything other than chip away at units, and certainly aren't going to win me the game - they just don't hit reliably enough, hence the 5 artillery pieces, which taken together should give me some protection from his dragon/phoenix or whatever other monster he decides to field! It's going to be a siege battle next, meaning (based on the rules we're playing), he gets to pick scenery, setup his entire force 2nd and also gets the first turn, so i'll need some luck!

But I believe that this time, i have a 500 point advantage at least (3.5k vs 3k). Yes the plan will be to castle, shoot him to bits, and then mopup everything else with my hammerers, longbeards and irondrakes. Those 4 gyrocopters should also give him some grief...

In terms of no magic, a combination of not having magic myself, nor experience playing it, and personal beliefs. (We do allow magical weapons/runes though)

On scenery - good tip ref: hill height, i might give him that depending on how the battle is going at that point haha. In terms of walls, i guess my qn was: can a str 5 organ gun destroy a wall? How about a str 9 grudge thrower? I guess we'll have to sort those details out between us...

 

So this may be my own understanding of the 8th edition rules on casualties - if i have a frontage of 6, and i lose 3, that always meant i only got 3 attacks back (or 4 if my front includes a veteran) - does that mean now in 8th i get to attack back with all 6 (plus an additional 6 supporting)? If that's the case, how does the slayer deathblow rule play in if i get all my frontal attacks irrespective?

My brothers high elves get 'martial prowess' which gives him an extra rank attack with everything!

 

Lastly, here's a test image of my Master Engineer i've just finished painting this week - not exactly the right colours for the rest of my army, but i copied the image in the army book that's why!

[Kallstrom]

Shooting is big part of the dwarven charm! Quarrellers on their own, and this goes for any ballistic shooting really, will work and perform just as you said - they chip away at the enemy at best. However, I find that equipping Quarrellers with Great Weapons gives them the ability to actually fight back and kill stuff that manages to charge them. It might be an option worth looking into, since dwarfs with Str 5 will make anyone think twice before charging in.

If I were your opponent I would try to counter that artillery heavy list by not using any monsters and instead focus heavily on fast units that can go after your war machines. Does your brother have any war machine hunting units that he sends after your war machines?

It sounds like an interesting scenario. Is he the defender? Because then it makes sense that he could pick the terrain, but to me it sounds like he should deploy first then also. Good luck with your coming games - and tell us how they go!

Dwarfs are very limited in the magic department - it is just our Anvil of Doom that can bang out some magical runes if we want to take part on the magic phase. High Elves however are  built around having magic as a tool in their arsenal (just as dwarfs has tools to counter a lot of magic).
8th edition is famous (or infamous) for having some broken spells, but with a simple house rule or two the magic is pretty fun and stable. A common house rule is to ban the use of the "6th" spell in every lore (or at least the worst offenders of those strong spells), and give every spell that allows "no saves of any kind allowed" at least some sort of save when it comes to characters.
All armies have different strenghts and weaknesses, so while dwarfs have no real magic to speak of they excel in other areas to make up for it. The same goes for high elves - they have excellent magic but weaker artillery, for example. Removing a whole phase of the game will hurt some armies more than others. It could be like removing the combat phase or the shooting phase, and as you can imagine it would hurt the dwarf army more than any other army to remove let's say the shooting phase since that is about the only thing that dwarfs are supposed to do really well. 
So I would recommend using the magic phase, even if it mostly means that your opponent gets to throw spells at you. It would probably help a lot with the internal and external balance of the armies. But its your games after all, so you decide what you want to house rule and not, of course.

Haha, regarding the terrain I would also recommend that both of you decides together before the deployment phase starts what each terrain piece on the table does and where the lines for them goes. For example, is the terrain feature just contained to the protruding scenary pieces - or also the base that it stands on? That way there will be no, or at least less, misconceptions that can sour the gaming experience if the terrain could sway the battle for any of you in any given circumstance and both of you are not on the same page regarding how you are supposed to play with those terrain pieces.
Also, on that very topic, I would recommend talking to your opponent what a "cocked" die means. Do you re-roll all and any dice that are not totally flat on the gaming table? Being on the same page regarding how you handle that can also save you from a situation where an important dice roll that can affect the game greatly ends up in a way that can spark a discussion regarding the roll's legitimacy. 


Regarding your follow up questions. A Str5 Organ Gun shot, from my experience, is usually not enough to count as a thing that can destroy terrain. Usually you need things that does Str10 wounds, or maybe Str9 depending on what you are trying to shoot and destroy with those attacks.

Casualties in 8th edition is always played in a way that prioritze that you remove models from the back rank. If for example a unit of 20 dwarf warriors (5 wide, 4 deep) fight a unit of 10 high elf swordmasters (5 wide, 2 deep) the swordmasters would strike first. Lets say that they kill 6 dwarfs with all the attacks that they are supposed to do. Then we remove 6 dwarfs from the back rank of the dwarf warrior unit so that there are 14 dwarfs left. Now the dwarfs get to attack, and since they still have enough bodies to make a full attack (5x dwarfs in the front rank each striking 1 attack, and 5x in the second rank all getting to do 1 support attack each) then we will still have a dwarf unit that gets to make 10 attacks (or 11 if they had a champion in the unit since the champion usually has one extra attack). 

In 6th edition, as you know, you removed models from "the front", and if there were no models left to fight once the enemy had attacked then you could not attack back. Brutal! But in 8th edition they introduced the "Step up" rule, which means that now the models in the back rank step over their dead comrades to fight in their stead once it is time to attack. So in a way you could still remove models from the front as the casualties come in, but then you fill the unit up with the models behind the models that just died. To make it smoother in the game you can just remove models straight from the back of the unit to represent the models that died in the front. 
This makes 8th editon different from 6th edition in a crucial way since now fast and strong units that cannot handle any retaliations has to think twice when they want to run into an enemy since if they cannot wipe them out then the enemy probably gets to strike back! This is great for dwarfs since we usually are not the ones charging in first because of our short legs. A thick dwarf unit can soak up the incoming melee damage and still get to fight back in the same round of combat if enough dwarfs survived!
Also in 8th edition you don't get to attack first just because you charged, instead it is always about who has the highest Initative value (or the special rule Always Strikes First). Dwarfs are very slow (the most or second most slowest army in the game in general) so it is very rare that a dwarf gets to swing first - so often it is worth it to stack up with enough bodies in every unit so that you are sure that you get so strike back when charged.

The thing about the Slayers Deathblow rule is that you get to attack even more! Lets say that those high elf swordmasters attack your unit of slayers. They strike first and 5 slayers die. Once the dwarfs get to attack back the still living slayers step over their dead slayer brothers and get to attack in their stead (like a normal unit would), but the Deathblow rule makes it so that even the models that died Also gets to attack! So both the dead dwarfs And the new dwarfs that "stepped up" gets to strike! And it also means that if a unit charges into the slayers and wipes them all out before the slayers gets to attack back you still get to attack with all the dead dwarfs (which is something you would not get to do otherwise since all the models were dead before their Initiative came about).

That Master Engineer looks great! It is a lovely sculpt, I hope to add one of those to my collection in the future. May he fight of the elgi with ease with that big hammer of his!

[thorpyuk]

I'll have a think about using quarrellers with GW, although i might just go Warriors with GW as i'd rather use them in ranks...  yep he's the defender.. we play a campaign whereby if you're the defender in a siege you get to place all scenery, pick side, setup 2nd and go first - quite the advantage! I'm going to smash him though because i don't think camping down is going to suit his HE army!

Aye it's a good reminder ref: agreeing rules on scenery pieces / cocked dice etc..I have a 'dwarf hold' that's like a mini-fort that i think we'll have to treat as a hill with walls. I think i'll try persuade him that Str 8+ hits will destroy walls (then my cannons and grudge throwers can whittle his defence away)

Thank you so much for the explanation ref: the 'step-over' rule - i'd missed that! That makes complete sense! It also means slayers really do some damage in close combat... armed with 2 weapons each that's 2 attacks each, max 4+ to wound and then deathblow attacks too  I guess it's just getting them to the battlefield in one piece that's the hard part! MRO Grundi a must...

 

[Kallstrom]

Warriors with GW is nice as well. It is a good way to bring a lot of bodies to the field that can still pack a punch.

If you manage to take some pictures of your coming game it would be fun to see! 


No problem, it is easy to miss rules when learning a new edition (especially when having rules from other editions all in the mix). The Step-up rule is a very big change for 8th edition, and it made the dynamic of the game very different from 6th edition.

Ohyes, that is a lot of attacks from the Slayers! If I remember correctly you only get to do 1 Deathblow attack per dead slayer (and that the most common interpretation by all is that it means that you only get 1 Attack even if you have more Attacks on your profile). So a Slayer with additional hand weapon (2 attacks in total) would still only get 1 attack when killed and doing his Deathblow attack. So that Slayer would (if he strikes first) dish out 2 attacks, and if he dies he does 1 more attack for a total of 3 attacks in that round of combat.  But a Slayer with a great weapon would do 1 attack when swinging, and if he dies he still only get to make 1 Deahtblow attack for a total of 2 attacks in that round of combat if he got to strike before he died - but that Deathbkiw attack would be at a higher Strength value since it was done with a great weapon equipped. Sure, Slayers always wound on a 4+ but the higher Strength can help getting that attack through onto a model with a better armor save. 
The Deathblow attacks are always made with the weapon you died with, so you cannot change from fighting with an additional hand weapon and then go for a Deathblow with a great weapon.

[thorpyuk]

Hi, i'll definitely take some pics! Here's a test setup i did, just to make sure i didn;t have any glaring gaps in my setup!

 

[thorpyuk]

So we finally had our battle... my 3.5k force of dwarfs vs his c3k force of high elves, albeit he had the advantage of being the defender in a siege, which meant he selected scenery, chose sides, deployed 2nd and took the first go.

I setup as per the image below (although that was taken in turn 2 i believe), with my right flank consisting of 2 gyrocopters, 15 Irondrakes, 30 longbeards, a cannon & organ gun backed up with my BSB. My centre was light, with just two units of quarrellers and a grudge thrower, and then on my left, a unit of 30 hammerers, my unkillable lord, 2 gyrocopters, a cannon and an organ gun.

His forces consisted of 6 repeater bolt throwers, around 4 units of 15 archers, a unit of 20 sisters of avalon, eltharion the grim on his griffin, Alith Anar as a single model acting as a sniper from the building, a large unit of swordmasters, and a large unit of white lions.

I deployed first, and decided to sit 19" from the centre line rather than 12" to ensure that his archers would definitely be out of range, however in hindsight this was a mistake, as it made my gyrocopters a prime target and i lost two of them in his first round of shooting. It also meant both of my organ guns didn't get to shoot for the first turn or two, rendering them a little more moot than their points value would indicate!

My strategy was to harass him with my gyros, advance up both flanks knowing that my troops should hold, and pepper him with gunfire. The grudge thrower went down with a whimper to his bolt throwers - i think it killed one single man! My organ guns got late into the game, and did a smattering of damage but not enough to justify their points, but the real stars of the show were my cannons, which probably accounted for all but one of his bolt throwers going down, killing his lord in the building, and generally blasting walls away to clear the path for everything else to shoot.

On my right-hand-side, the irondrakes and longbeards took steady casualties from his sisters of avalon, and associated archers / bolt throwers, but when in range the irondrakes did manage to kill a fair few, including finishing off his griffin which was quite satisfying! They also held firm to the last man due to their Ld10. The longbeards were charged by his swordmasters and took heavy casualties, and although they did manage to kill a few back, they held until the last man with their RO Stoicism ensuring a decent leadership roll. Right flank - overrun, just!

On the left, it took some time for the hammerers and my lord to advance up the field, the hammerers taking steady casualties (why oh why do they not have gromril armour?!). The lord was finally charged by the remains of his white lions (around 6 models by the time i'd finished shooting him up!), and dispatched them fairly easily. The hammerers finally charged into two of his units of archers, killing one and sending the other straight off the table! Left flank - resounding win!

In the middle, my quarrellers advanced slowly and spent most of the game trading blows with whatever ended up being in range - no action.

The end result, after 8 hours of battle (we finished up around half past midnight), was that we decided to call it a hard-fought draw. He accepted that, if we had continued to play out, i would have eventually won, but with very heavy casualties, and we'd have probably needed another hour and a half which we weren't inclined to take! Here's my ratings for how my units performed:

 

Unkillable Lord - 7, for the points he can soak up damage like there's no tomorrow, but he doesn't actualy hit that hard with just the 4 attacks.

Hammerers - 7, again would have been higher had they not taken so many casualties, but once in combat sis their job

Organ guns - 6, however this was my fault as they were too far back to have a bigger effect on the game

Cannons - 10, definitely the stars of the show, and although i had my misgivings before, they will be a staple of my army going forwards!

Quarrellers - 6, did ok but are never going to massacre units as they just don't hit reliably.

Stone Thrower - 4, I think that's down to bad luck more than anything else though - i'll give it another try but for 170pts i expected more than a single kill!

Longbeards - 7, considering they cost the same points as swordmasters, that just shows how ludicrously overpowered swordmasters are as they outkilled the longbeards probably 2-to-1. But they did hold their ground and fought to the last.

Irondrakes - 8, proved difficult to kill with their forge-proven gromril armour, and also managed to stop a charge from his griffin due to their runes of slowness. Good fun unit too!

Gyrocopters - 5, disappointing showing as only got 2 shots off between the 4 of them, however that's probably partly due to my setup putting a large bulleseye on their backs from the first turn. Able to soak up a large amounts of arrow-fire.

 

I think had I had a chance to replay the battle, i'd deploy right up in his face from turn one, and let him have multiple targets to shoot at from turn 1!

 

[thorpyuk]

Hi again all,

The battle the other day threw up a few questions that didn;t seem answerable immediately in the rule book, so i was wondering if any of you could help?

 

1) Can cannonballs bounce uphill? This one caused a bit of argument!

2) when hitting a building with a cannonball, apparently it causes D6 hits on a unit inside... what if there's only a single character inside?

3) can organ guns stand and shoot? I though i'd read that no war machines can?

 

Lastly as I promised to share pictures of my painting, I thought i'd share a pic of the gyro i (half) panted last night... it needs finishing but it's probably 75% there!

 

[Zidane_blade]

Looks really fun!

1: Yes, hills dont block the cannon ball.
2: Still D6 hits.
3: No, war machines cannot stand and shoot. I believe there is a rule called, slow to fire, or something like that.

Further more, I see your units stand a little close. I seem to remember a 1" rule between all units.

[thorpyuk]

Thanks Zidane, for the clarification.
In terms of the 1" rule, we generally don't play it and instead just leave a 'sensible gap' between units, but I'll remind my opponent about it come the next match!

[thorpyuk]

So i've managed to take a few pics of a snippet of the army, some of them painted by me, some of them 'acquisitions'!

Here's the first one - painted by me, a cannon & crew (or at least, 2 crew and one warrior!) Set on some pre-bought scenery pieces:

 

Next up, i'm part-way through painting up this unit of GW Warriors/Longbeards:

 

Finally for the stuff i've painted myself, here's my finished gyro!

 

Now, onto stuff i've purchased, first-off, another gyro, but this one a little more vintage (5th? edition). I must admit, i'm not bowled-over by the colourscheme, but i do like the model:

 

Next up, a pro-painted Belegar Ironhammer (although i'll probably use him as any lord/hero on an oath stone:

 

Also pretty much pro-painted, a unit of quarrellers, possibly 6th edition? These are done really well

 

Now, a unit of hammerers, very well painted, although the colourscheme is perhaps slightly out vs the rest of my army, so i might look to touch them up a bit at some point:

 

 

Last one for now is a flame cannon. This model i don't think they changed from around 6th edition? But it's a great model, and a massive improvement on the old 'barrel with a trumpet sticking out of it' that i owned probably 25 years ago when i collected these before!

 

Hopefully you enjoy those - i'll drop some more pictures on of some more stuff soon!

 

 

[thorpyuk]

Hello! I promised i'd keep the updates going, so here's a couple of updates on painting, and also a recent battle I played against a norse army (niche yes, but my friend is a fan!)

First up, i've been feverishly painting since i last updated - i've done a few extra things - an additional gyro, an organ gun, but i've mainly been focussing on great weapon warriors as these will be key (In both longbeard and vanilla form), and also a lord on shieldbearers (not a fan of the model though!)

First up, a unit of irondrakes i've been working on as i love the unit and feel it plays really well. I use them on my flank as flank guards and supporting fire:

I have virtually 10 done now including standard and Ironwarden...

Next up, my dwarf lord on shieldbearers. I've used him in 'unkillable' format with good results, but for a battle i have coming up i've gone with more of a killler build - MROSnorri, RO Might, RO Fury giving him 5 attacks, hitting on 2+ with at least 4+ to wound, more if the enemy are 5+ toughness! (Plus the 2 bearer attacks). He also has a RO Preservation just in case he gets hit with killing blow:

 

 

I must confess that that was not a fun model to paint... shame it didn't get an 8th edition makeover but hey!

Last up, a veteran. Not major exciting, but useful nonetheless!

 

Now onto the battle report...

I played a 'friendly' 2,000pt match against a friend who was testing a norse army - not exactly sure which one tbh, but he was running a horde list with some fast cavalry in support, with a few archers. Some of his units were pretty handy in H2H combat too.

I decided to buck the trend and go with a Strollaz list, which looked like this:

 

Thane, GW - 71pts

Thane, BSB, GW, MRO Grungni, Strollaz rune - 191pts

47 GW Warriors, FC, 500pts

3 Gyrocopters, 2 with vanguard

30m Hammerers, FC, Strollaz, Ancestor rune - 505pts

25 Irondrakes, FC, Strollaz - 455pts

 

This is after setup and before the 1st go...

 

 

Long and short of it - very narrow defeat and entirely my own fault. I made a fatal error in turning my warriors (the middle unit) towards the threat coming from his right flank, and in measuring up, forgot that when charging you add your movement value! His square unit on his left flank was 13" away - too far to make the charge thought I. But of course when adding 4" movement, it became a '9' on 2D6... he thought about it and decided it was a gamble worth taking. He made the charge, hit my flank, caused my unit to run and killed the lot - over 700 points worth He also overran and hit the flank of my hammerers, which put up a damn good fight of it, but was eventually overcome by sheer numbers. My gyrocopters made a nuisance of themselves, and my irondrakes fought to the last, but it was in vain. I feel if i'd not made that fatal error, i would have won the game.

Here's a pic midway through, after i'd lost my key warrior unit (which also contained my BSB!)

 

We're having a rematch this weekend - i'll update with the battle report on that one, along with a few pics sometime afterwards!

 

Edited by thorpyuk, 16 August 2022 - 03:27 PM.

[thorpyuk]

Hello fellow dawi!

So, rematch all complete, here's what happened, with a couple of pics to boot.

I decided this time, to go with a 'traditional' gunline. The points limit was 2,000 so i had to tweak and re-tweak to get a list i felt i was happy with. I wanted this to be a maximum effectiveness game. We played without the magic phase. Here's my list:

 

Lords & Heroes:

Lord, shield, shieldbearers, MRoSnorri, Fury, Might, Preservation - 288pts

Master Engineer, stone - 75pts

Master Engineer, stone - 75pts

Core

30 Longbeards, GWs, FC, 2xRO slowness - 500pts

Special

Cannon, forging - 145pts

GT, accuracy, penetrating, forging - 170pts

3x Gyrocopters - 240pts

Rare

10 Irondrakes, FC, trollhammer, 1xRO slowness -235pts

Organ Gun, accuracy - 145pts

Organ Gun, burning - 125pts

 

Although i didn't choose shooting units like quarrellers or thunderers for my core allowance, the setup idea was the longbeards on one flank, and the irondrakes on the other with the 3 gyros supporting/harassing. Anything coming down the middle was in for a world of hurt as it would take the full force of my 4 war machines.

The Norse army i was up against consisted of a unit of 7 snow trolls with a lord on a ferenir wolf harassing my right flank, supported by a unit of hunters (scouts) that deployed right next to my irondrakes. Then his middle section was 2 units of around 25 marauders, and a horde of bondsmen (rabble). His right flank was a nasty unit of Ulfwerenar (warewolves) in skirmish formation. Lastly, he deployed 2 stone throwers in his rear corners.

My setup, right-to-left was irondrakes, organ gun, cannon, dwarf lord, grudge thrower, organ gun, longbeards. The engineers supported both organ guns, and the idea of the lord in the middle was to hunt down any war machine hunters. I also deployed a gyro on each flank and 1 in the middle to respond to any weak-spots that might appear. 

My opponent took the first turn and moved up... his wolves nearly closing half the range. Both his stone throwers managed to kill 1 single longbeard. My turn, i let the trolls have it with both organ guns and also my drakes. My cannon successfully sniped one of his stone throwers, and my longbeards reformed slightly further away from his wolves to make any charge attempt slightly tougher. My stone thrower missed. Here's a couple of shots after both first turns:

 

 

 

On his 2nd turn, the trolls charged the drakes, needing a '9'... he rolled... a '9', but his triumphant look of glee soon turned to despondancy when he found out he needed to subtract a D6 due to my slowness rune. To add insult to injury, my drakes wasted another 2 of his trolls... really useful against regen with those drakeguns! His 3 central forces advanced, and his wolves moved closer (that shot above is after his 2nd turn come to think of it!)

On my 2nd turn, i further rinsed his forces... my gyros were right into position at this stage and hitting around 15-20 men per shot - ouch!

I decided, after much deliberation, to charge his warewolves with my longbeards, and they did brilliantly, winning the combat and sending his primary flank threat packing with their tails between their legs... aided by some rotten dice rolls by my opponent it has to be said.. but str 7 on the charge is pretty nasty in its own right. Another devastating shooting phase and his trolls were all wasted and his lords mount also killed, and he shook my hand - a devastating victory for the dwarves, which more than made up for my slight loss last time out!

All told, i was delighted by my victory and believe that for 2k points, its as close to an optimal gunline as you can get!