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Vermintide Heroes Represented With Aos Profiles

vermintide victor saltzpyre sienna fuegonasus markus kruber kerillian bardin goreksson

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#1 The Bearded Baron

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 06:10 PM

Hello all!

 

A long time since I've darkened the door of the brewery. How is everybody?

 

I've been around, as always, just not really posting. The last time I did was more than likely about how I haven't taken to Age of Sigmar. Well it's three years later and that's still largely true. Although i'm hoping to change that (more accurately somebody else is hoping to change that for me and I'm trying not to obstruct it!)

 

So I come to my friends at Bugmans' with a request, rather cheekily. 

 

I'll be honest, I haven't really played AoS at all. I know that it's 'simpler' than fantasy was and i've watched a few battles and read the rules but I haven't quite clicked with it. So what i'm looking to do is host a weekend campaign for myself, my wife and a few friends to play AoS. But nobody in the group, including myself, would be interested in that prospect alone, so what we're doing is using my Mordheim board and hopefully recreating Vermintide (a PC game that we all play) using AoS rules.

 

I already have a few ideas of how to do this but I certainly welcome anybody's feedback in this regard. One such piece of advice I've been given is to use the skirmish ruleset for AoS.

 

So since I don't really have a handle on balancing for AoS yet could anybody point me in the direction of some character profiles that I could use to represent the five heroes of Vermintide (Dwarf Ranger, Witchhunter, Empire Soldier, Waywatcher and Bright Wizard). I've checked the respective compendiums/warscrolls for these characters but what i'd really be looking for is a Lord-level versions of each. Characters that could evenly go toe-to-toe with 20-80 clanrats/ skaven slaves on a table.

 

A pretty big ask I know. But any guidance of how best to go about this would be great. Keep in mind, if your first piece of advice is 'why are you starting to learn AoS by doing something so complicated? Just play a few games until you understand it'..well That would involve me being a fair bit less stubborn and much more accepting to new ideas and ways of thinking...That wouldn't be very Dawi of me, would it?



#2 Ragnar Alpaca

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 07:19 PM

Hello, and welcome back!

This idea is very awesome imo, I love Vermintide and all the characters in it.

Before I try to help, what exactly are you after, just using the heroes by themselves against skaven, or the characters leading small forces of their own against the rats? Cause drastically different stat lines would have to be created for each of those situations. Whichever the case may be I would love to help you create warscrolls for each of the five.

Also need to know if you want them to be able to level up likes campaign skirmish game, and do you want subclasses from the new game?

Edited by Ragnar Alpaca, 15 May 2018 - 07:29 PM.


#3 The Bearded Baron

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 02:33 PM

Ey up, Ragnar!

 

Thanks very much for your offer, mate.

 

My plan was to create a sort of mini campaign using the five heroes from Vermintide only as individual characters fighting waves of Skaven with some specials thrown in there as well (making use of the models in my wife's old 7th edition skaven army).

 

So ideally each character should be able to stand up against dozens of rats (or more!) on their own but also rely on a certain degree of team work to make it through. I had found the profiles and points costs for Skaven models from the GW website but since the Hero characters would need to be custom made I wouldn't really have a reference for balance. (It doesn't need to be perfectly balanced, we're only a beer and crisps gaming group, just enough to make a few fun games.)

 

Ideally some form of level up feature would be available too. Not so much levelling up the characters as maybe just giving them slightly better gear for completing side objectives or bonuses.

 

As much as I love the new classes in Vermintide 2, I think sticking to the basic classes would be fine, so the Witchhunter (Rapier and Pistols), Empire Soldier (Sword and Shield and handgun), Waywatcher (Bow and Knives), Dwarf Ranger (Great Axe, Crossbow) and Bright Wizard (Fire Staff and sword). Then maybe we could have weapons options for each character too, like in Vermintide? So being able to gain new weapons by rolling on tables (I may not know Age of Sigmar, but I certainly know a thing or two about loot tables!) after each fight, or by finding them in chests on the board.

 

Any help that you could give along any of these lines would be muchly appreciated!


Edited by The Bearded Baron, 16 May 2018 - 02:33 PM.


#4 Ragnar Alpaca

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 09:33 PM

I enjoy doing things like this, so I’m glad to help!

Now let’s get down to business, as we’re on Bugman’s it’s obvious I’m going to start with none other then our master dwarf ranger, Bardin Gorreksson. This stat line will be a bit of a beta, I’ll try to test it out myself to see how it works out and alter it before continuing with the other four characters. I’m trying to also implement some mechanics from the game into this as well, such as potions and reviving teammates. At the end of the day we’re still using dice, so I’m going to be slightly more forgiving with the characters, making them a bit more powerful to make up for a bit of the randomness.

Anyway here we go...

Bardin Gorreksson
6” move
6 wounds
3+ save
- bravery

Missle Weapons
Crossbow 16” 4 3+ 3+ - 1
Handgun 12” 4 3+ 4+ -1 1

Melee
Hand axe 1” 4 3+ 3+ - 1
Double handed axe 1” 4 3+ 3+ -1 1

Abilities

Resolute Defense
If Bardin didn’t move in the previous move phase he receives +1 to Armor saves

Taunt
If Bardin is equipped with a shield he can use this ability to cause all enemies within 3” to attack him instead of allies, if they cannot attack they must pile in towards him.

Health Potion
Bardin can use this on himself once per battle, if he does so he heals D6 wounds. Alternatively he can use this once on an ally within 3”, doing so grants them D6 wounds.

So ideas... The health potion ability will be on all characters, the reason I gave him a 6” move is so he can keep up with everyone else, the amount of wounds and armor saves on characters will likely be the things that change the most, and I eliminated bravery because none of these heroes would flee imo.

Edited by Ragnar Alpaca, 16 May 2018 - 09:45 PM.


#5 The Bearded Baron

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 04:46 PM

Ta for that!

 

I'm certainly glad I asked for help...My profile wouldn't have looked like that at all! But it looks great, it looks just like Bardin from Vermintide!

 

A few points that I had wanted to represent in some way/shape/form is that the healing potions would actually be scattered throughout the map to be found from the beginning, either in chests or just planted down.

 

Secondly, one element I quite liked about Bardin's crossbow is its ability to snipe specials, so would it be feasible, do you think, to have a special 'focus down the scope' sort of attack where he gets 1 attack but it deals D3 mortal wounds (they're a thing, right?!) Could that then represent either picking off a Stormvermin in one shot or pinning three clan rats with one bolt?

 

Also, just as a clarification point, are the crossbows + handguns and hand axe + double handed axe there for reference or for balancing would he have both on him? Because this is the sort of thing I would be struggling with in terms of coming up with a profile myself. What's the right amount of attacks/weapon types to give to them?

 

As I said, this looks amazing and I really appreciate the help here, mate!



#6 Ragnar Alpaca

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 10:48 PM

Yeah the health potions could most definitely be loot items that can be found in chests. We should make a loot table as well for that. As for the snipe ability, I actually was trying to think of something for that but couldn’t come up with anything, your idea sounds great for that though. As for the weapons, I was just intending him to be able to take one of each of the weapons, loads of warscrolls for AoS have weapon options for units, but they also explain what limits they have in taking the weapons in the unit description. With the final version of the warscrolls I’ll add something along those lines. Ex: Bardin can take a double handed weapon and handgun, or a hand weapon and shield and handgun, but not all 3 or all 4 weapons at once, just like the game.

I also struggle slightly when trying to determine how many attacks to give each of them, and how strong of attacks. It’s always hard to determine this, and therefore this also might be something that changes later on.

Another question. When does this need to be ready to go for your group? Because as it stands I could quickly write up the other 4 heroes and let you be, or spend a bit more time and try to get it more balanced and in depth.

Also the reason I’m so eager to help you sir, is that I’ve never realized how bad I want a table top version of Vermintide. I will definitely expand upon this and try to make it as good as possible, so you and your group along with my group can play it in the future, and hopefully anyone else on this forum.

Edited by Ragnar Alpaca, 17 May 2018 - 11:06 PM.


#7 Ragnar Alpaca

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 11:07 PM

Just thought another thing that could be implemented, a reviving system.

#8 The Bearded Baron

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 06:26 AM

It is a noble endeavor! I searched for a good long while to find somebody who had already done this. I found a few people who had attempted rules for skaven and reinforcements, etc, but nobody had the profiles for the heroes or any sort of rules. That's why i'm happy for this to be done on the brewery, even if we don't get it nailed down it should bring some new visitors here who can contribute to it!

 

Back to the matter at hand!

 

The time frame that I have for this is roughly three/four weeks. So there's time for some playtesting. (I'll also be able to do a fair bit of playtesting when we actually have our gaming weekend too)

 

Snipe/Focus Shot I'm glad that my idea makes a little sense. Perhaps the handgun could do D3+1 Mortal Wounds but have a lower range? Maybe making the snipe shot is an either or case. Maybe you have to pick one, normal handgun fire or sniping. Or perhaps if you want to snipe AND use normal handgun shots in the same shooting phase maybe your normal handgun shots are at -1 to hit or you lose 1 attack from them? Not sure, just some way of making the snipe shot seem like a special case as to when to use it or not. This way you're much more likely to use it to single out a big multiwound guy than you are to 'waste' it every turn shooting basic rats, although you still could?

 

Reviving Team Mates I don't know anything at all about any Objectives in Age of Sigmar scenarios but my initial thoughts for reviving team mates was that the hero who is doing the reviving must spend their entire turn (within say 3" of the downed ally) attempting to revive. And this should be, for example like rolling a 2+ on a D6 to attempt it. But each enemy model within 1" of you when you are attempting it adds +1 to the roll required? Or maybe has a chance to interrupt the attempt by rolling a 6 on a D6? Not sure. But some ideas there!

 

Multiple Ways to Use Weapons I really like that you have to select which weapons to equip on your hero before the fight. Then between fights if you unlock more you can change them out. A sort of 'basic campaign progression' system that's very similar to the game. However, one little bit of information that I gleamed from reading the Dwarf Thunderer page that I liked was that their melee attack is using their rifle butts. That made me think that perhaps weapons could have a secondary ability that is a pushback? So a double handed axe has a pushback that pushes D3 enemies within 1" of you back by 3"? Maybe a shield pushes D6 enemies away? That way most characters get access to push backs to varying degrees but some are better at it. Another idea down this same path is to have a 'charged' attack with each weapon? Not sure if this is necessary or even a good idea, but taking Bardin's Great Axe as an example. Maybe Instead of making its 4 attacks at 3+/3+ 1 damage, maybe it makes a single attack that is 3+/2+ Redn -2, 3 damage? Then it might sort of feel like you're literally selecting which way they swing their weapons in certain situations, as if you're controlling them like in Vermintide. Anyway, perhaps this is confusing the attack process! I'll leave you to make sense of this idea.

 

Loot Tables I haven't had the chance yet to really put pen to paper and come up with any ideas. But off the top of my head I thought maybe there could be multiple loot tables (eg. a Chest loot table, Ranalds Bones loot table, a battlefield set up loot table). So for example, The Battlefield Setup table that you roll at the beginning of the map to determine what stuff is scattered around (it can then be placed randomly based around table sections?) Anyway, as an idea here is what I thought for the Chest loot table:

 

D6

1 Nothing!

2 Ammunition (I hadn't really thought that ammo should be kept track of in this game..although maybe it should be? Otherwise maybe this just gives +1 to hit with normal ranged attacks for D3 rounds?)

3 Potion (D3: 1 Strength, 2 Concentration, 3 Speed...will work out effects later!)

4 Healing Potion (See Above)

5 Medical Pack (Works better than a healing potion, maybe 3D3 Wounds instead of D6? or something...)

6 Loot Dice (gives an extra dice to roll on Ranald's Bones at the end, which so far i'm thinking would be a D66 table)

 

 

Anyway, there are a few ideas i've had. I'll start thinking now about the Rats and how to have them generated. So far i'm thinking that you will need to have a human player controlling them then a human player controlling each hero. So that way you can sort of control the difficulty of the game (based on the number of players) by having all Skaven spawns being something like D3x the number of heroes, D3+1x the number of heroes, etc.

 

Will keep thinking!


Edited by The Bearded Baron, 18 May 2018 - 06:30 AM.


#9 Ragnar Alpaca

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 03:22 PM

All some very good ideas Baron, although while reading those ideas I realized that there will have to be some sort of implementation of actions per turn for each character and enemy. Don’t know if you’ve played Necromunda before (I’ve only played the newest version), but the way it works is each ganger gets two actions per turn, which they can use to do many different things like, one for shooting, one for running, or use two to make a double move, there’s also an aim action allowing +1 to hit in shooting. I think implementing something like this could be good, because I for one don’t really like the idea of, let’s use Bardin for example, I wouldn’t like to see him start his turn, be able to shoot, drink a potion, charge into combat, use shield bash, then revive a teammate. That just sounds like a lot to me in a turn.

Snipe/Focus Shot
Idk here really, because I think it should be one or the other, like you said snipe should be for larger targets while the standard shoots should be better against clanrats and slaves. I think keeping it just one shoot at D3 is good enough, for Bardin at least. It should be for stormvermin and Rogers, who will have good saves, therefore being able to save against a lot of normal wounds but being vulnerable to any mortal wounds.

Ways to use weapons
I do like this idea, especially the pushback and shieldbash punching enemies back. However charged attacks do also sound like a good idea, it might be difficult to implement them, even though I would like to. As it stands there are a lot of things to do, each character will have a pretty wide assortment of weapons, and giving each melee weapon a charged attack would add too many profiles. The only way I can see too do this is add it like a rule, something like if a character decides to use a strong attack, they make only one attack, but their melee weapon receive +1 to hit, wound, rend, and damage.

Also love the idea of a the loot tables, except as you said, the ammo one won’t work in this, and giving a +1 to hit could work, but it might be better to replace it with something else, because I for one would never remember to use the ammo bonus.

Edited by Ragnar Alpaca, 18 May 2018 - 03:24 PM.


#10 The Bearded Baron

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 04:29 PM

Ah, that's an excellent point. I didn't realise in AoS each character could do everything all at once in their turn. Move and shoot and use items and perform actions. I like the idea of having actions per round and we have a few homebrew tabletop games that work this way, so that would be easy to implement for us. However, as an alternative idea, could we limit all 'special' abilities. So for example, moving, attacking (normally) and shooting (normally) can all be done every turn. But only one special action can be perform each turn. A special action being: reviving a teammate, using an item, interacting with an object (a lever or switch, or claiming an objective), or using a special shooting attack (snipe) or a special melee attack (charged attack) 

 

So there are two ways of doing it then, having all 'actions' take up 1 action slot of the 2 allowed per character, per turn. Then there's the usual AoS rules for melee and ranged attacks and moving, but only 1 'special' ability per round. Not sure which of these two options seems to capture the style of the game more. What are your thoughts?

 

On Charged Attacks. I think that it could be a fair bit of work, you're right. But I think this might be key here to making the choice feel like the combat itself is different. So for example, we wouldn't need each item necessarily having a separate charged attack, some could share them. So for example, the charged attack on a Shield and Hammer could be a 'Knockback' ability. Whereas the charged attack on a two handed weapon (halberds, great axes, double handed swords etc.) could be do more damage to a single target. So although there could be 15-20 different items across all 5 characters, they would only really be 5-6 different types of 'charged' attack.


Edited by The Bearded Baron, 18 May 2018 - 04:34 PM.


#11 The Bearded Baron

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 01:25 PM

Just checking in to see if there has been any headway with the development of the character profiles?

 

I've been away last week but upon my return i've got a box of Stormvermin to paint up.

 

Hopefully my first opportunity to test this system out will be next weekend, where I will be able to upload any photos and results/feedback from the rules.



#12 Ragnar Alpaca

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 10:01 PM

Unfortunately I haven’t been able to make them. The last two weeks for me have been finals, so I diverted almost 100% of my attention to them. And this next week I’m going on a camping trip with my friends and I won’t have access to the internet.

I will try to throw together some quick warscrolls right now for the time being but they won’t have the amount of detail I would like to have put into them.





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