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Skaven Cheese In 8Th


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#1 Thorfar Salokin

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 04:59 PM

Are the Skaven the cheesiest army in the 8th!?? The 13th spell with no saves whatsoever .... with pesky warp tokens to cast .... scorch template spell with no scatter ... leadership at 10 with rank bonus .... strength 5 warp flamethrower ... high initiative frenzied plague monks ... unbreakable bell and never mind the hell pit. All at a pittance cost! (I was playing O&G so no nice flaming cannons).
To cap it all I cast foot of gork who flattens three rats before deciding to squidge x9 orcs. Oh well - can't win em all. In fact can't win any at the moment. Pfft

#2 Hero of Rome

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 09:58 PM

For cheesiest 8e army my vote goes to Dark Elves and High Elves, as Empire it was such a nightmare fighting them - massively outclassed in everything, yet somehow their units are still more cost efficient than mine.



#3 Durak

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 02:50 PM

The big issue with skaven were hellpit abominations, who could easily solo 2k armies by themselves. When in small points games it wasn't even a contest. Their movement was also horribly overpowered.

I also didn't like the design feature of them either working flawlessly in which case they steamroll, or they misfire and kill themselves.

#4 Zidane_blade

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 04:34 PM

Skaven in a nutshell.

#5 Hero of Rome

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 08:25 PM

I would certainly agree that Skaven was one of the cheesiest armies in 8th, but I found Dark Elves and High Elves nastier. But the Hell Pit...makes me shudder.



#6 jouke1988

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 12:35 PM

Never had the chance to fight DE or Skaven with a Hell Pit but I am sure it is a big thing that hurts. DE and HE though. Their whole army is packed with fast, running things. 



#7 Killer Angel

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 05:33 PM

Not exactly the cheesiest army, but Ogre Kingdom.
Because there were essentially two cases :
1 - you have a template spell that eats big models with low I (pit of shades or a purple sun)
2 - you don’t, and you just suffer an unstoppable death star of ironguts with the Rune Maw banner that makes them immune to direct spells and a Hellheart.

Plus, i absolutely hate their ironblaster. Cannons were already overpowered in 8th, and a cannon on wheels was just too much.


Edited by Killer Angel, 06 September 2017 - 08:11 PM.


#8 Hero of Rome

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 09:34 PM

Not exactly the cheesiest army, but Ogre Kingdom.
Because there were essentially two cases :
1 - you have a template spell that eats big models with low I (pit of shades or a purple sun)
2 - you don’t, and you just suffer an unstoppable death star of ironguts with the Rune Maw banner that makes them immune to direct spells and a Hellheart.

Plus, i absolutely hate their ironblaster. Cannons were already overpowered in 8th, and a cannon on wheels was just too much.

I'd argue that cannons were the things which balenced massive monsters, although they were certainly too good at their job! Ogres are nasty - they were the first army which I suffered massive defeats from. Thankfully my friend is too lazy to build his Ogre army so I don't have to fight them, yet ;)



#9 Killer Angel

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 11:12 AM

 

I'd argue that cannons were the things which balenced massive monsters, although they were certainly too good at their job!

 

 

 

eheheh... as a player of Lizardmen as main army in 8th, cannons were a nightmare, due to the fact that not only they were able to kill with the same shot both the monster and the hero riding it, but because they had basically laser precision.

Back in 7th, when you needed to guess distances, they were more balanced.

 

In 8th, point cost wise, cannons were (probably hands down) one of the most efficient units, being almost always able to repay themselves... with interests.


Edited by Killer Angel, 07 September 2017 - 11:14 AM.


#10 jouke1988

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 03:01 PM

I love the cannon but agree with the OP argument. I believe they made a simple kill to easy. I once played a VC player with his general on a Terrorgheist. I killed the TG turn one and won the game. Cannons can be tricky as well because they can kill itself pretty easily. IMO the cannon should have been a rare choice in all rosters. Just because of the power the thing has.

#11 Zidane_blade

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 05:28 PM

Well....you can just as easily roll a one when determining wounds as well as a six. Sometimes, you get lucky with the cannonshot. Other times, you roll poorly, and the monster gets in close combat and recks face.

#12 LiveWaaaaagh

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 08:01 PM

I love the cannon but agree with the OP argument. I believe they made a simple kill to easy. I once played a VC player with his general on a Terrorgheist. I killed the TG turn one and won the game. Cannons can be tricky as well because they can kill itself pretty easily. IMO the cannon should have been a rare choice in all rosters. Just because of the power the thing has.

 

I agree with the above, 100%. Cannons have always been OP. I like what 9th did with D3 wounds, but then again, facing a monster list, D3 wounds means you need A LOT of cannons. But that's beyodn the point.

 

On the other hand though, it's all about list selection too, right? If I'm playing against Dwarfs, I know and expect some artillery, so I'm going to plan for it: I don't bring monsters for the most part, or maybe 1 max, to see if it gets lucky and if anything use it as a distraction while others move into position (if turns allow). I wouldn't bring a general on terrorgheist against Dwarfs, for example. But I would maybe against High Elves, for example (the bolt throwers are strong, but not laser guided cannon, D6 wounds strong) or Wood Elves.



#13 Thorfar Salokin

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 11:07 PM

Have to agree with Zidane on the cannon - I seem to regularly have cannonballs stop dead just before a unit or casually caught in mid-flight & tossed aside! Also their manoeuvrability means you may not get off that shot.
Not to say casting one of the uber-spells isn't without risk but if it were a level 1 or 2 with IF it would probably be worth the trade off, there's protection available against miscasts and a reasonable chance of survival too.
Still at least we're not playing End Times with those 'termirator ogres'.

#14 Hero of Rome

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 07:18 PM

Cannons, from my experience, either dominate the battle - and pay for themselves in 1 or 2 rounds of shooting - or simply whiff, and are a huge waste of points.


Edited by Hero of Rome, 12 September 2017 - 07:18 PM.





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