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Support For The Old Ways


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#1 Shaun

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 11:48 AM

How many players here still choose Warhammer Fantasy over Age of Sigmar? In my opinion Games Workshop did the playerbase harm by abandoning the old game ... do you all still find the hobby growing? How many games do you guys play a week/year of Warhammer Fantasy?

I live in Australia and by my reckoning there are only a small percent of WHFB players to be found. WH40k still goes strong and AoS is yet to be seen - i myself shall remain a Warhammer Fantasy player rather than Age of Sigmar.

#2 Goraz

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 12:27 PM

Age of Sigmar is wildly popular and its growth is much higher than WFB was in its last few editions. People may have enjoyed WFB (I certainly did), but they didn't buy anything. GW paints made up more of their revenue than the entire fantasy range towards the end and if its not making them any money there was no motivation to continue pumping money into it. They're a business. Age of Sigmar is a great game though, I suggest you give it a shot :)



#3 Hero of Rome

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 02:40 PM

I will always prefer the old fantasy. It's a shame considering games like Total War Warhammer and Vermintide could have given Warhammer the boost it needed if advertised properly.


Edited by Hero of Rome, 04 April 2017 - 02:40 PM.


#4 Thorvald the Relentless

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 03:19 PM

Seconding Goraz on all of that. In the CIS fantasy has grown immensely since the relaunch, FB was dead even by us. But I always found a bit too bad and stupid people want to choose between what could be used both, as if somebody pressures them to choose. Maybe it's some kind of "fighting the system" thing, I don't know. Looks pitiful, anyway.



#5 The Bearded Baron

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 04:30 PM

I'll always prefer the Old Ways. Warhammer Fantasy was symbolic of everything that made old school RP and fantasy great. 

 

I appreciate that, as the lads above say, sales for fantasy were down in the last few years. Yet, it remained one of the most popular games in every single tabletop club. You could always find somebody who would play it. The fact that those people weren't buying miniatures is nothing to do with the game. Look at the sales for the End Times models. That Nagash model and the book sold out about three times in my local GW. It just shows that the first time GW had a dedicated push of content for the Old World and the demand was there. Everybody was talking about it. The forums were more active and it brought old gamers back into the fold. Sadly, instead of turning it into a new edition or another campaign they decided to crash the Titanic into the iceberg and loot as many suitcases from First Class as they could in the panic...

 

I have nothing at all against AoS apart from this really hostile 'them' and 'us' mentality that crops up when new and old gamers get talking about it. Both sides are equally guilty, of course. If only GW could have run both systems side by side for a bit. At least given that they would have drawn gamers into each other and could easily have been made to work hand-in-hand at least in the short term. There was no reason to make it outright replace the old setting so awkwardly.

 

Having said that, as the topic already has been steered towards a polarised view of both games, I prefer to look back fondly rather than argue anymore. The Old World and 8th were where my teeth were cut with tabletop gaming and the setting and the books will always be where my heart will remain. I only get probably three our four games of 8th in a year these days. Some with my wife, most with the odd one or two fellas in a local gaming group (although we haven't met now since before christmas....) Every other friend, store and gaming group that I knew of has moved on and left 8th edition behind. 

 

Once more I find myself agreeing with Hero of Rome, my old pal. The crossover in potential synergy of the wave of warhammer fantasy PC games could really have given the tabletop a new lifeblood. So, so many people on the Total War forums desperate for lore information or pictures of models and just general information about the game that was. Such a classic example of GW throwing the baby out with the bathwater. 



#6 Goraz

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 05:41 PM

Bearded Baron, the two AoS posts above were all for playing both and giving the new game a chance. The only polarizing comments came from those who don't like AoS. GW had produced the game for 30 years (and they were glorious, I played 4 or 5 games a week with my friends and miss it) but sadly it just wasn't financially sustainable anymore. They also wanted to give themselves the freedom of setting that 40K has.

In 40K you can make up a planet with all this new stuff on it with no worries, Fantasy was unfortunately very defined on what was/wasn't there. Beyond more humans and a small area of unexplored land they had no where to go. AoS gives them the opportunity to use whatever idea they think up and its been great.

I miss Fantasy, I really do, but I also appreciate that they wanted to end FB on a high note, keep their investors happy, and create a new universe where they can really let their creativity show. I think 30 years was a pretty good run :)



#7 The Bearded Baron

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 05:50 PM

Bearded Baron, the two AoS posts above were all for playing both and giving the new game a chance. The only polarizing comments came from those who don't like AoS. 

 

I think that both sides of the debate are to blamed for such polarised thinking. My point is that whenever 8th edition or AoS is discussed it always comes down to a contest between which is better and then inevitable an argument along emotive lines. I'm as guilty as anyone for letting this happen but I don't want to keep fueling that fire. 

 

If somebody wants to talk about AoS or 8th edition let them. There's no need for the other side to keep trying to even the playing fields.



#8 Hero of Rome

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 05:53 PM

The problem was the release, and the destruction of a world which had been the source of happiness for many, for a long time. It still baffles me that GW did not make a 9th edition, while making a skirmish game on the side to bring in new customers.



#9 Thorvald the Relentless

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 07:20 PM

Goraz is right again. GW tried, really tried, with 8th edition, but to no avail. They hardly had another chance, I'd assume. And the old world is still there, it's a past of the new universe, and with all tens of books and such it will live on as long as people remember. Just the future is set in another setting on the ashes of the old. This is life, guys. Everything in life goes this way.



#10 Shaun

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 02:51 PM

Cheers for the responses ... ill bet the people that made the decision to switch their system/creations over to Age of Sigmar will still play Warhammer Fantasy from time to time ... it is too lovely to ignore 😊

#11 LiveWaaaaagh

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 06:42 PM

Hi! 

 

Good to see a comment re: Fantasy on the forums. 

 

Here, we still play Warhammer Fantasy 8th Edition. There's a group that plays 9th Age, which we play every now and then as well. But nothing compares 8th. I feel personally that the stories and games behind 8th are great and with the addition now of Total War Warhammer, we find ourselves actually trying to field some of these big lords such as Durthu or Ungrim Ironfist, etc. 

 

I was actually just thinking how cool it would be to start getting some of the models for these lords that we don't have so we can start using them more often. 

 

Anyway, 8th is still played here and preferred. 

 

AOS really isn't played at all where I'm at - and I personally tried it many times but never could get into it. 

 

For more 8th edition stuff, feel free to check out the Eight Edition for Life forum over here: http://eefl.freeforums.net

 

And check out some of our 8th edition battle reports here: www.livewaaaaagh.com  <-- More to come in late April! 

 

 


Edited by LiveWaaaaagh, 05 April 2017 - 06:42 PM.


#12 Graydon Ironshield

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 10:00 PM

I may play Age of Sigmar, but my armies are still based up for WFB, and even my newer creations are based the same. Round bases just don't work for fantasy, not when I can't put up a proper shieldwall, or have cavalry ride bootstrap to bootstrap (yeah, yeah, I know, Dwarfs don't do cav, but you get my point). I still use movement trays even. There was even times when I ran the ancient Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying game, which is about as old as the original WFB. I've supported the Old Ways, but even this old greybeard has to admit AoS plays faster and cleaner.



#13 Thorvald the Relentless

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 10:56 PM

Of course, even in the 8th edition there were too many preparations for actions and too few actions themselves. The game engine is so old it wasn't able to properly handle all the rules even in the 7th, if not earlier. Game was always a weak point of GW anyway. As for bases, the most logical would be using round ones for undisciplined lot like marauders and berzerkers and square ones for shieldwalls and such, for hard to imagine all marching and fighting always in tight blocks - it's stupid even for fantasy. 



#14 Dethos

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 08:33 AM

A bit of story how I'm late to the party, but still sticking around:

 

I love the classic aesthetic of ranked units and the lore. In the end of 2015 I decided to start proper with the hobby with the aim to build a themed army, after odd on off-painting for several years. During that time WFB was still going fairly strong and I was enthusiastic to start painting up an army. A few months after I decided to pick up on my old night goblins as well and start building an O&G army. At the same time, I got the idea to theme the armies around 

 

Then in the summer of 2015 AoS was released. I played one test game with my local gaming group and soon the realization crept in: WFB was killed by GW. A few months after I found about Ninth Age, and I slowly regained interest. The fortunate thing about AoS release was that I was able to acquire affordable amounts of models for painting my 2 armies, as other people began selling theirs.  I participated in my first T9A tournament during the beginning of 2016 (I did not have my army ready during 8th) Slowly, interest began to regain at local level. In the summer I started a Mighty Empires campaign with T9A rules for tabletop battles with 3 of my gaming pals. We are now going on second year (both ingame and real-time).

 

Approaching the end of 2016, my O&G and Skaven armies were now hundreds of painted models strong. I thought soon it would be appropriate to expand to Dwarfs as well to expand my project so that it would fully encompass the narrative of Karak EIght Peaks. At the end of 2016 I acquired a unpainted dwarf army deal. At the same time I established a proper blog to start documenting my process after previously only posting to forums.

 

I prefer WFB over AoS. Although the rules are simple in AoS, I dislike them. I still may be biased by just having played the messy release ruleset without the General's handbook rules but the unique flavor of WFB has been lost. WFB is like a more intricate version of chess: It requires skill to learn to play effectively, but is much more rewarding in the end.

 

However, I mostly play with 9th age rules, but the armies I play with and the ones I regularly play against are very much themed upon the Old World. I still have the armybooks however, and willing to play 8th edition when I get the chance, however it does not happen that often.

 

 



#15 Thorvald the Relentless

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 11:00 AM

Surprisingly, all requires skill to play effectively. What a discovery! And certainly no chess - way too random and primitive, and in this regard GW has turned back to the good old days of RPG Warhammer before it turned to that overcomplexed monster later on, so I'd settle more on the Ravening Hordes, really. 



#16 Montegue

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 03:58 PM

If you loved Rank and Flank, then Kings of War is your game. It's hugely popular in the US, especially in the southern US, with GTs already beginning to rival the old 8th ed GTs in size and scope. Huge hobby opportunities with multibasing, excellent tactical play and a very well (not perfect, but better than anything else on the market) balanced game. 

Mantic's a great company, and if you like organized armies with tactical movement, KoW is where it's at. 



#17 Dethos

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 08:27 AM

I see. Me and my local gaming group are pretty happy with where 9th Age is going right now.  Maybe comparison to chess was a bit over the top but T9A still more in-depth than AoS in my opinion. Random and Primitive is a more fit description for AoS. Shooting from close combat? Really?

 

I understand that Kings of War is a great game in it' own right but it does not suit my situation right now. I have a few reasons - There are no rules for some of models which I am looking to field once painted, such as the Anvil of Power or Gyrocopters. So considering this it actually limits my hobby opportunities. Multibasing is also entirely possible for 9TA as well. Also, customization is unfortunately very limited, with no equipment choices, and unit sizes have to be strictly set to certain numbers. 

 



#18 Thorvald the Relentless

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 10:21 AM

Random and Primitive is a more fit description for AoS. Shooting from close combat? Really?

 

Not, no at all. And yes, in many games you can shoot from close combat - surprisingly, is it not :) the problem is that the engine is too old and unfit for such a monster, so everything built upon the good old FB in game terms is bad - certainly after Ravening Hordes when the game was constantly expanding but without the engine change it lead to what it lead. AoS is new and fresh and up to now is not an overcomplexed monstrosity, although it may so become in the future.



#19 Shaun

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 10:35 AM

My grudge that is born is at the attempted execution of the world of Warhammer Fantasy by Games Workshop ... i am delighted to still see fans of such things as the Vaults and the Badlands - the places of Warhammer Fantasy ... i ponder why/how the people behind Warhammer Fantasy simply chucked it in and then each (AoS, KoW, the 9th) made new settings/worlds to play in ... i think it a travesty and a mistake. I doubt not they each still long for the great forest of the Empire and the haunted deserts of Khemri ... rules can be altered in 'house' - but to try to destroy the Warhammer Fantasy setting is despicable and unagreeable with me...

#20 Thorvald the Relentless

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 12:36 PM

It's just a matter of taste, really. I, for one, was drawn to the FB because of miniatures (fantasy is my roots after all), but always found the setting plain and boring, filled with thousands of cliches. It's not a LotR or Hyboria, or 40k - which is really unique, captivating and leaving all rivals far behind. Of course, everything has its merits and it's good when people have a hobby - but to be obsessed with it and obsessed so much? that's not sound by any means. Especially when all the relaunch was done and the net was flooded with hate and disdain for those not agreeing with those who say it was "travesty" and "mistake", and it was so serious that even now many old fans believe themselves to be far superior to those who's left - just like Hitler did, not doubt. I believe all of this comes not only of the human weaknesses and susceptibility to corruption of any sort, but also because of the fact many don't realize that it's not the setting or game make it all unique and enjoyable, they are easy to create. It was and is always the miniatures, who make all of this alive. Forests of the Athel Loren and snowlands of Naggaroth are nothing without those who make them their homes and represented in plastic, metal or resin forms and shapes. Everything begins and ends here. If you love your figures and your time you used with them, you will love them despite all the changes of the big world, but if not, you will burn them and make a video on youtube, and then all this is a big lie, foremost to you yourself, and this is not healthy either. 






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