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Keep Going Back & Forth


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#1 Weezheat

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 03:45 PM

Hi all,

 

A quick thread to vent in a way. A friendly sort of venting this time around, but one that I have spoken about with some friends that share a similar thought. So I figured a quick thread to kick start conversations wouldn't hurt.

 

Why back and forth?

 

Well, part of me is saying the following in my head:

 

"Who cares if GW decided to nuke the old world. It's still there for me. The rules are there. The world and stories are still there. the miniatures are (for the most part) still there. Nobody can take that away and I can continue playing".

 

The other part says:

 

"It's a dead game. You are already having major trouble finding people to play with (more on this below). GW has finally righted the ship and is doing almost everything right, but it's with AOS, a game you tried for many months but couldn't really get into. What a shame, because it would have been great if 8th or a new 9th received that sort of support. Why play a game that will only continue disappearing more and more. Why invest more $$?

 

And then comes the back and forth #2:

 

On one hand, there's KoW and 9th age. The problem? I only tried KoW once and I wasn't in love. I played 9th quite a bit, but really dislike the direction they're taking in with 1.2 and 1.3. So why play something and invest hours into something I don't fully enjoy?

On the other, as stated above, finding 8th edition opponents has become a needle in a haystack as of late. I recently moved to a different city which made it even tougher. But some of the folks here quit outright with 1.2 and others are more competitive and continue playing 9th. KoW is non-existent here.

 

In the end, my wife plays the odd game here and there with me, and that's about it. I wanted to get the new island of blood set. But again... why?

 

Perhaps it's time to store the throng for a while until the drums of war sound again, if ever?



#2 Kallstrom

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 04:43 PM

If I were you I would wait till the 9th Age has settled a little if that is how you feel. Maybe keep yourself up to date from time to time and then at least give it a go later on. Once 2.0 is out, like a year or more from now, it would probably have settled and be of such a high fidelity that you probably could say that the game either is something for you or not - and if it is not for you then you could walk away. Right now things are a bit all over the place, but the new rule book is out and I think that in the long run this game will be hard to beat. :)

Kings of War seems like a more relaxed and casual game, so maybe you could give that a go during the coming year and whip up some new recruits from somewhere? If you have enough models to field at least 2 armies then you could try to look for new and old wargamers alike on forums/boards and such that are interested in giving KoW a go. You could be their teacher!

8th edition won't be getting any new players, so I would probably steer clear from leaning to much on that system. Look to the future instead, and just enjoy the far-in-between times you get to play 8th. Have that game as a backup, but look for another system to get your fix from. At the moment both the 9th age and kings of war looks like strong contenders, but I would say that they cater to different tastes and audiences. 

What is it that did not strike your fancy regarding the changes in 1.2 and 1.3? Maybe a new approach or a new army (temporarily) could mitigate that problem for you for now and give you the joy of wargaming back?



#3 Ganon217

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 06:17 PM

I have been going through a similar predicament. Ultimately, I have turned to trying to get some of my gamer friends to pick up 6th ed. warhammer. People like the fact that all of the material can more or less be found online now, with the destruction of the old world. It all comes down though to trying to convince friends to give 8th edition a go and seeing who enjoys it. 



#4 Hero of Rome

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 10:06 PM

I know your pain, Weezheat. I for one am staying with 8th, and am still adding to the my Dwarf, Empire and Bretonnian armies when possible (just got an amber wizard on griffin as I like the lore).

 

And don't get me to try ninth age or anything else: I am as stubborn as a dawi and I am not going to play anything that is not lotr or the Old World.



#5 Kallstrom

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 08:21 AM

And don't get me to try ninth age or anything else: I am as stubborn as a dawi and I am not going to play anything that is not lotr or the Old World.


But there is a difference between rules and fluff. You could always use the rules from the 9th age or KoW or whatever and put them in any setting you like! I for one would love to see game of thrones or lotr-inspired content using 9th rules. :)

My dwarf army for example will be more inspired by "A song of Ice and Fire" than by any other fluff-source, but I will still use the rules the most people play with around here in my neck of the woods - which is the 9th age.
All in all it works like a charm. Fluff is whatever you want it to be, and I know that the units from 8th carried over to 9th which would still make your whole army in its current state playable. And if one wanted to field a lotr/hobbit-army one could look to KoW since they have mounted dwarfs and whatnot. ;)

#6 Weezheat

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 03:12 PM

Thank you all for the responses and input! It's good, in a way, to know others feel similarly. I don't intend for this thread to become another "why 9th age" thread. Suffice to say that the changes to army comp, magic and the continuous elimination of randomness is heading in direction I don't intend to follow at this point.

 

I'm going to start reaching out more and hoping to find even 1 or 2 friends willing to play! Total War Warhammer will have to do until then.



#7 Ganon217

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 03:24 PM

I imagine that Total War: Warhammer could actually be used as a good recruitment device. "Oh you like that video game, here is the awesome table top!"



#8 Hero of Rome

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 03:52 PM

I imagine that Total War: Warhammer could actually be used as a good recruitment device. "Oh you like that video game, here is the awesome table top!"

It makes sense. That's why GW didn't do it :)

 

No, I do find it strange that GW would terminate the Old World a year before the game came out - they used lots of Warhammer fantasy marketing in the months before the game dropped - May 24th, 2016.



#9 Zidane_blade

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 03:55 PM

Because the license to even start making the game, could have been sold four years ago? The announcement came back in dec 2012

Edited by Zidane_blade, 30 December 2016 - 04:18 PM.


#10 Kallstrom

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 04:49 PM

I don't intend for this thread to become another "why 9th age" thread. Suffice to say that the changes to army comp, magic and the continuous elimination of randomness is heading in direction I don't intend to follow at this point.


That is all well and good, hopefully we all can find a wargame that suits our own needs and desires. :)

#11 Ozariig

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 08:16 PM

I feel somewhat similarly. My band of murderous bearded midgets got their start in the WHFB universe and a part of them will always be there. GW's old fluff still serves them best.

 

I don't think 8th Edition (or 6th Edition, for that matter) will ever truly die. There will always be somebody who has a full set of books in their basement, waiting for the right moment to bring them back out again. The trick is to somehow find these people, wherever we go!

 

I've been branching out into all of the games mentioned by the OP. I actually find things to like in each system, though finding people to play with in my city is increasingly a challenge for any of them. Seems like people are spinning off and doing their own thing.

 

My wife bought me a copy of the Frostgrave rulebook for Christmas, which somewhat resembles a streamlined version of Mordheim. I appreciate the structured form of play, the quick matches with small numbers of models, and the fact that solo content exists for the game, which is something that has become much more important to me lately. It's also new-ish and a little bit trendy, which might help to find some local players.

 

When you ask a question like "What's the point?", there are a couple of different answers. The first is that if the modelling, collecting, playing, and/or fluff are something that inspires you, then the point is the same as its always been. It's great to find other like-minded people, but the thing is good in and of itself.

 

If the point is to be social, then it gets tricky to justify further investment. Better off finding out whatever craze is sweeping your area and follow the herd. No reason to get rid of the old stuff though, mind... as you get to hanging out with more new folks, you'll improve your odds of finding someone who says, "Wait, you played WHFB?? No way, I've got boxes full of models in my basement! Lets bring 'em out for old times' sake, what do you say?"


Edited by Ozariig, 30 December 2016 - 08:16 PM.


#12 Montegue

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 08:22 PM

Kings of War takes more than a few games to really shine for you. Stick with it, play more games, and see how you feel then. It's harder than Warhammer, less forgiving of mistakes, but SIGNIFICANTLY more balanced than any other war game out there, including 9th Age. It's the best Rank and Flank on the market in my opinion, and the place that's kindest to the Dwarf Army (even though we still need some help there). 

 



#13 Bugman

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 10:48 PM

KoW falls down in the lack of magic, lack of magic items and any kind of fun rules and yes the latta one is also reduced in T9A. Sayings it's significantly more balanced is a stretch but like everything, it's a personnel opinion

You don't always need the army books, pdfs help!

Having said that I enjoy 2 Ed 40k and have all the books so I can't talk lol

But yes, the community has been shattered, there are ways to play online if you can't physically play but don't give up, it's a great hobby to be in, so try to introduce some folk, you never know!

#14 Pellegrim

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 05:36 AM

Actually it strongly depends on your location, it seems. The wargaming scene is very much alive, and there are at least 45 9th Age tournaments the next two months. Things are really taking off. And you can use your old fluff if you like. So feel free to join the fun!

#15 Montegue

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 12:44 PM

KoW falls down in the lack of magic, lack of magic items and any kind of fun rules and yes the latta one is also reduced in T9A. Sayings it's significantly more balanced is a stretch but like everything, it's a personnel opinion

You don't always need the army books, pdfs help!

Having said that I enjoy 2 Ed 40k and have all the books so I can't talk lol

But yes, the community has been shattered, there are ways to play online if you can't physically play but don't give up, it's a great hobby to be in, so try to introduce some folk, you never know!



The fun we have playing must be completely imaginary, Bugman. 

Anyway, try it for yourself. You have to play probably 5-6 games to get a feel for just how well Mantic managed to create tactical depth with a simple rules system. However, once you get the hang of it, it's a lot of fun. 
 



#16 Ozariig

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 04:32 PM

Actually, I kind of wish that T9A had used KoW as a base for their rules and not WHFB 8th Ed  :biggrin: It's way easier to add complexity and choice to a system that's already streamlined and balanced than it is to balance and streamline a complex system. If they tried something that screwed up the game really bad, they could always just reset to the baseline and re-build from there in a different direction. And finally, I would anticipate way less nerd rage when you're just adding cool stuff to an existing game, instead of doing a mix of adding stuff and taking stuff away.



#17 Pellegrim

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 07:08 PM

Sorry to stay off topic, but .... well that would have been terrible, imo. Glad they took 8th, which is a pretty solid ruleset, and build on that. Agree the nerfs hurt sometimes, but they are pretty engaging too. 1.3 is looking solid. 

 

BTW we a re pro producing the full designed rulebook, if you havent seen it, it's pretty amazing, check here http://www.the-ninth...hp?simple-page/

 

If you want a copy, you'll be able to order one yourself at the Production on Demand centre later. I'll link up. 



#18 pforson

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 12:20 AM

Kings of War takes more than a few games to really shine for you. Stick with it, play more games, and see how you feel then. It's harder than Warhammer, less forgiving of mistakes, but SIGNIFICANTLY more balanced than any other war game out there, including 9th Age. It's the best Rank and Flank on the market in my opinion, and the place that's kindest to the Dwarf Army (even though we still need some help there).


I have to say, I completely agree. I've played Fantasy since 3rd edition, tried 9th and even AoS as well as multiple other Fantasy and historical systems throughout the years, and I can honestly say that Kings is the best tabletop wargame I've ever played.

Most people who dismiss Kings, haven't actually given it a good go. They've read the rules and considered it to be too simple, but the game doesn't really demonstrate it's true depth until you actually play it. It can be quite humbling when someone tables you using your own army!

It really is wonderfully elegant in design, however, I can totally understand why it doesn't appeal to everyone. A lot of people play Warhammer "online" - that is to say, they spend far more time theorizing and discussing list construction than actually playing the game. For a lot of people this 'homework' is half the fun - I even enjoy it myself at times. Kings however, is not this, Kings has to be played to be appreciated.

To get back on topic, I'd say play whichever system most appeals to you. Try to find a local gaming club and introduce the game to them. If you show enough enthusiasm, then I'm sure a few people will become interested.

Pete

Edited by pforson, 01 January 2017 - 12:29 AM.


#19 Pellegrim

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 10:29 AM

That's interesting. We actually also hear the opposite alot. People that actually start playing KoW and are lose interest after a while. Since they also really played it, it must be a personal thing. I'm not saying this to bash KoW, but cause we litterally read that alot from people coming to the 9th Age forum.


Edited by Pellegrim, 01 January 2017 - 10:32 AM.


#20 Zidane_blade

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 11:48 AM

Its not related to any one game in particular. Thats just the natural process, of finding a game that you like, and afterwards tell the reason to those in your community.




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