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"sigmarite, Duardin, And Gods, Oh My!" The Quest For Fluff.

lore fluff grungni grimnir incarnate duardin sigmar stormcast

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#1 evendel

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 02:22 PM

Alright, so I'm very behind the times when it comes to all things lore-related and I've been trying to sort of catch up.  One thing that I have heard and kind of noticed in my searching is that the fluff in the final 8th Ed. army books and the stories in the End Times additions don't necessarily match up with the official stories written by the Black Library author (Joshua something I think?) and that it is difficult to figure out what really did and didn't happen because GW has declared any clarifications the author makes null and void to the canon.  If they didn't print it then it didn't happen.  My search for answers lead me initially to the Lexicanum and what I found there with minimal searching mostly amounted to what was happening between the elves during the End Times and the attempt at unity and Teclis scheming to create eight Incarnates or whatever to represent the Winds of Magic in order to turn back the tide of Chaos.  Seeing as this touched almost nothing of what happened with the dwarves, let alone the actual END of the End Times and the birth of new lore in Age of Sigmar, I kept searching.

 

A few keystrokes and a click or three lead me to a lengthy write-up over on 1d4chan that seemed to cover basically everything.  He had it broken down into the key points that affected every faction, divided up BY faction so you could read about just your guys, and I think capped it off with a "These guys are definitely dead...at least in the End Times" list.  What I'm remembering of that, as far as dwarves are concerned, is that the Skaven and Goblins did some serious raiding and killed some of our best beards.  Many lords preferred to look inwards to try and save themselves rather than aid the Empire (as our sworn oath to Sigmar suggests we should have done).  We open the gate to Valaya to try and usher in a golden age, or at least stop the world from ending I guess.  But Nagash is a total douche-nozzle and breaks into Valaya's bedchamber to suck all of her magic out (though nothing specifically stated that she was "eaten" or in some other way actually killed since he still had to kill ANOTHER god to become a god).  Ungrim becomes the Incarnate of Fire!  Thorgrim becomes the Incarnate of Metal!  Thorgrim dies.  Damn.  Metal eventually bound to Balthazar Gelt.  Everyone marches to Ungrim and then march to aid the world in its last days.  Gotrek is Gotrek.  Gotrek is Grimnir!  Felix eventually dies.  Grombrindal, the White Dwarf, summons every angry dwarf ghost ever to fight, vowing to avenge every grudge before the world ends!  The world ends in darkness.  Sad face.

 

Of course after learning, in a fashion, what happened to the Old World I need to know about the New World(s).  At the very least what I've learned/read online/heard is this;  At some point after the end of the World That Was Sigmar lost Ghal Maraz (pfft, Humans) but managed instead to reach into the Chaos Realms and snag the core of our poor, poor world.  He proceeded to float in...the Warp?  I guess?  Totally not lost, he knew exactly where he was going!  It's true!  He didn't NEED to ask Dracothion (giant space dragon of the heavens!) for directions he was...just...umm...taking the scenic route.  To the Mortal Realms.  That he TOTALLY knew existed.  Yeah.  >_>  Upon reaching the Mortal Realms he found a "cloud" of lost souls and was able to give them form again, essentially recreating all of the races that had existed in the Old World, but in the Mortal Realms instead.  He sets the core of the Old World in the center of Azyr and builds his city around it like a halo.  Over time more and more of the souls coalesce or whatever and the Realms are populated again!  Humans and Aelves and Duardin oh my!  Orruks taste like Orruks and Ogors taste like...eww.  Sigmar even discovers that many of the old heroes have become gods, or that the old gods are rediscovered/reborn in these new Realms.  Cue the ringing of metal and the stoking of forges!  Sigmar finds both Grungni and Grimnir!  No Valaya, though...not yet.  Nor any of the other minor Duardin deities.

 

An age of peace settles over the realms as the races expand and build vast kingdoms into every corner of existence.  Sigmar manages for a time to hold everything together, even Gorkamorka (Or Morkagorka?) doesn't completely fly of the handle and start killing everyone just to kill something.  Grungni assists in the building of Sigmar's city (Sigmaron?) and establishes an Iron Mountain or somesuch for all the Dispossesed/Duardin who choose to live in Azyr.  Eventually things start to unravel, Grimnir is sent to kill Vulcatrix and explodes into Ur-Gold, Nagash is still a massive dillweed, and Chaos returns to screw up everything.  So after thousands and thousands of years of people rebuilding on 8 massive Realms (it was "millenia" was it not?) all three Major gods, plus the Great Horned Rat, come in and start slaughtering everyone.  There is apparently ineffectual resistance, nothing particularly organized at least, and Chaos takes everything again...at least, almost everything.  Sigmar sees that the Realms are lost and seals the gates to Azyr to figure out how he can save himse-errr....everyone.  During this time he apparently consults with Grungni and they devise the Stormcast Eternals.  By using the core of the Old World they discover sigmarite and Grungni begins production on armor and weapons while Sigmar somehow plucks the greatest heroes of the Realms he can find out of their Realms and into his to be beaten time and again, body and soul, until they die or become big damn heroes, sir!  When he feels ready he throws open the gates and sends his newly minted Stormcast Eternals out to fight Chaos and prays to himself that they can win enough to start saving all the other Realms.  And somewhere along the line I heard that Grungni, after fashioning the Stormcast Eternals, left Azyr to search Chamon (the Realm of Metal) for the Duardin who went there.

 

And that, theoretically, brings me up to speed, yeah?  But there are still questions...like first and foremost, is there a single book I can get that really explains the origin of Age of Sigmar?  Hopefully one that actually describes the Realms as more than "Chamon, the Realm of Metal...is a Realm.  Full of Metal."  Or do I really need to be shelling out like $50 for every single campaign book, Grand Alliance book, and Battletome just to keep up with what's going on?  Is there even, perhaps, a place online where I can get a cliff-notes kind of version of the current "history" of the Age of Sigmar?  I know that they are still exploring and discovering and revealing what has happened and where things and people are, but it's a little infuriating to think that I might have a cool idea for an army theme only to have them release a book that says, "Nope, sorry, according to canon that couldn't happen."  I mean, I haven't seen it stated anywhere but I ASSUME that what Duardin and Humans, and I guess Aelves now, we have are essentially descendants of the original souls that were reborn in the Realms.  And I had assumed, until I heard that last thing about Grungni, that Grungni was basically chilling in Azyr with Sigmar ready to repair damaged armor and make new armor for new Stormcast...unless once he finished the prototype stages he just handed the work off to the Duardin in the Iron Hold and kicked back with a brewski to watch everyone else work for a bit?  I mean, I know that Sigmar can apparently draw the souls of the deceased Stormcast back and reforge them while tweaking Nagash's skeletal nose, but is it just the soul?  Does he reform their body or can he at a distance steal back their soul AND body to be reborn in his Realm?  Does he need to make new Stormcast ever or was there a finite number and, therefore, a finite amount of armour and weaponry necessary?

 

And given that Grungni is also a god AND was essential to the initial formation of the Stormcast, wouldn't he still be integral to any new Stormcast development?  How much of the process was him and how much was Sigmar?  I mean, is Sigmar the only god capable of thumbing his nose at Nagash and recovering the souls of dead heroes?  Just how powerful is our remaining known Duardin god?  And what, I wonder, does everyone know or remember about the Old World?  Does Grungni know that before it all ended Nagash magic-raped his sister?

 

*sigh*  You see?  I feel like I know so much...and yet so very, very little.  Sorry about the wall of text.  I'd gladly give a TL;DR for this, but I don't think that's really possible short of just reading these last two paragraphs.  Any help would be gladly appreciated.  I want to be connected and part of the Realms...but I need to be able to understand them first.  Where would I even start?



#2 Dunn Rimmerson

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 06:12 AM

A lot of good question and sadly I canĀ“t help but I wanted to say that I really like your post :)



#3 evendel

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 10:34 AM

Thanks :)  I hope someone around here has a firmer grasp on the current lore, or at least how I can more quickly bring myself up to speed.



#4 Gidrick

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 02:38 PM

Well, to answer at least one of your questions, Sigmar is the only one who can cheat Nagash because the two have a shadowy and rarely mentioned deal that they've made that allows Sigmar to keep reusing the souls. 

 

Also Grungni created the original stormcasts then taught "the Six Smiths" how to do it and left for Chamon. The six smiths, whoever they are, currently forge all the stormcasts.



#5 Dubren

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 05:00 PM

The three that bug me the most that i would like answers to are these.

-why are the Fire Slayers willing to work for Chaos? They seem to fanatically worship Grimnir (which i can get because he is a awesome god) yet Grimnir was possibly one of the biggest enemies that Chaos had in the old world and continued to be their enemy.

So why are they willing to help Chaos for Ur-gold, wouldn't it make more sence that they would go full berserk the moment they realise Chaos followers had a piece of their god in their possesion?

-where are the other Ancestor Gods, they literaly had zero mention in 'that which shall not be named', exept for Gazul, although vey shortly if i remember correctly.

Will we ever see or hear from them again?

-Do the souls of the dead Dwa-excuse me-Duardin go to Nagash as well? why is Grungni OK with this, Nagash killed his wife (maybe)? If so I don't imagine Gazul being all to happy about that if he still exists.



#6 Strongbeard_Liam

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 08:19 PM

Don't worry GW is a model company so they will only focus on the models and everything else will be free....wait....son of a b........

#7 evendel

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 10:46 PM

@Gidrick - So given the suggestion from GW that any hero (male, female, human, duardin...I suppose aelf?) can be made a Stormcast Eternal it would at this point be only Sigmar who could do that?  Even though Grungni has all the know-how for the forging process he would at best need to take living heroes within his reach to create specifically duardin versions of Stormcast or at worst somehow successfully invade Shyish, assault Nagash's strongholds, and recover lost souls?



#8 Gidrick

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 02:38 PM

Well, from the way I understand it, Grungni could in fact make duardin stormcasts, but they would not be eternal since the has no way to retain their souls when they die. Sigmar has Lord-Relictors, which are essentially necromancers on loan from Nagash to Sigmar. Any stormcast that dies with them around is sent back to Azyr instead of Shyish. So, theoretically, If Grungni made a pact with Nagash the way Sigmar has, he could in fact create duardin eternal.

 

@Dubren - In fluff, most contracts with chaos are done in a sort of backhanded way. They do a task, take the ur gold, and then kill the chaos. They loathe chaos, but why kill them and then take years hunting for their hidden ur-gold when you can simply get them to give it to you and then kill them?

 

As far as duardin souls, it would appear that they do go to Nagash. I don't particularly think he is ok with it, but Sigmar made them all play nice for a while, and Nagash has been asleep since then, so it has been something of a non-issue. I've yet to see any mention of Gazul.



#9 Dubren

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 07:09 PM

@Gidrick - Ok that i didn't know, thanks for making that clear, however i still see a few problems with this attitude especially when Chaos pays them to fight a force of Order, seems a bit counterproductive.

Still any faction of Order that doesn't blindly bow down to Sigmar is something i applaud.

Also the way I understood it was that the Runefathers could sence Ur-gold from miles and even Realms away or did i misread that?

 

Shame i still hope that the other Ancestor gods show up eventually but at this point that might be a fool's hope.

I still feel like at least they could mention Grugni having a problem with this, I get he's allied with Sigmar but even allies can have disagreements.

Personally i would have found it cool if Grugni tries to keep the Duardin Souls from Nagash but always fails, since he's a god of Smithing and Ore and Nagash is THE God of Death at this point, and constantly tries to find a way to succeed.



#10 evendel

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 12:17 AM

@Gidrick - So far you seem to be fairly up to date on AoS lore.  It seems to me from what I'm learning as I continue to search and read is that GW is being very vague about everything until they want to explore it.  For example, Grungni and Grimnir are found on a mountain in Chamon...but refuse to say what happened.  Then Grungni founds the Iron Karak...but does he found it in Chamon (hence giving him a reason to return to Chamon to find it after the the Chaos invasion?) or does he found it in Azyr as a refuge for duardin throughout the Realms?  The gods are powerful...but how powerful?  We know they have physical forms, but how far does their power and ability extend beyond that?  I just wish there was a bit more specificity.

 

It sounds like Grungni could have forged himself, or requested from Sigmar, his own specifically duardin Stormcast, complete perhaps with Relictor Rune Priests and relies on Sigmar and the Six Smiths to repair them and send them back.  Or that he made them for the initial push into Chamon and would make more once he has established a foothold, but just has no way of replacing them without having to make more.  What about the physicality of a Stormcast, how mutable do you think that would be in the lore?  I mean, what if he was unable to give the spirits of the ancestors bodies and instead adhered their indomitable wills to the armor he forged?  Would they have to be classified as something other than Stormcast?  I suppose it brings into question what it actually means to be Stormcast.  If he could utilize just the souls, but not bodies, then it might put more of an impetus to both restore the duardin race AND assault Shyish to recover materials if you will.

 

I was thinking of an army along these lines so that I could paint them like Stormcast Eternals and model them more or less appropriately to field either as a Duardin or Stormcast army.



#11 Thorvald the Relentless

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 07:21 PM

In general you should read all campaign books and then the fyreslayers battletome (and all other battletomes also have various scenarios sometimes connected with the new duardins). Also there is a Getting started with the Age of Sigmar and General's Handbook. Lots of books so, like always by GW :)



#12 Dubren

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 10:36 AM

I've actually started reading those (finally found a site that can somewhat properly explain to me what's going on), I still have problems with AOS but after Gidrick's story i've tried to be more openminded towards the setting.

I have to admit there is some cool stuff in there, I still hate GW for killing a setting i dearly loved, but realised it's rather unfair to hold that towards the new setting.

I'm just tired of hating, i've hated AOS for well over a year now, i actually went throught the lore three times and each time was put off (it was their early lore so yeah not really a good start)

Now with the world somewhat more fleshed out i don't feel feel the same contempt i used to and actually find some of the new stuff interesting.

I like KOW after going in blind knowing next to nothing about the setting and actually liking it and am willing to do the same now with AOS.

(mind you the prizes stil put me of on AOS, but i am really curious about the new Duardin and who knows i might actually start collecting some if they are cool.)

 



#13 Thorvald the Relentless

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 10:55 AM

Wise reasons. Besides some really cool fluff like on the flesh eaters courts or Ironjawz (or beastclaw raiders for that matter) there is a strong plot campaign (Realmgates wars) and the global campaign by GW all over the world (Season of war) that is now over. AoS is actually D&D meeting Warhammer. Really cool. 

 

And speaking of prizes - start collecting! boxes and stuff like that are really good and tempting, for example, if you buy Arkhan's Skeleton Horde, for the price of Arkhan you get skeletons and knights actually for free.



#14 sgreg308

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 01:57 PM

Wise reasons. Besides some really cool fluff like on the flesh eaters courts or Ironjawz (or beastclaw raiders for that matter) there is a strong plot campaign (Realmgates wars) and the global campaign by GW all over the world (Season of war) that is now over. AoS is actually D&D meeting Warhammer. Really cool.

And speaking of prizes - start collecting! boxes and stuff like that are really good and tempting, for example, if you buy Arkhan's Skeleton Horde, for the price of Arkhan you get skeletons and knights actually for free.


The new lore for the mentioned factions I found to be quite awesome (Loving the beastclaw raiders). The start collecting boxes are stupid good buys. Can't wait to see what new duardin stuff comes out. It seems when they repurpose a faction (or a part of a faction) into the post generals handbook AOS setting, we get a much more in depth understanding and feel for that group within the new lore. I'm excited to see where they go with the Grungi story and the new duardin. I personally don't expect to see very many NEW models for duardin, but certainly rehashed rules for drakes, breakers, hammers and the like as well as detailed lore and plot. We will certainly see a new faction for duardin.

#15 Thorvald the Relentless

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 02:44 PM

Aye, we've got only to wait when finally a new dwarvish book comes out (fyreslayers are quite cool but not really my style, I prefer more armored guys), then everything will be good at least. I would not also expect new models much, though they could be, but it's not that of a deal now because GW strives yet to put all factions into the new world, new miniatures will come later anyway. Judging by the Grand Alliance book I think all the recent plastic stuff remains intact.



#16 sgreg308

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 05:07 PM

Yea, I think it's easy to forget just how new the drakes, breakers, hammers etc are. Expecting them to go back and change the presses for a new line up of models after having just invested so much in a relatively new and good looking lineup would be wishful and unreasonable I would think. However, it would pretty stellar if they treated us to a single big baddie like a gromril golem or something. That doesn't seem entirely impossible.

#17 Thorvald the Relentless

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 05:40 PM

It certainly could be so. For now I'd expect the book and maybe something like this golem or a bid war machine, but it also depends, if it's the dispossessed, then probably they won't get much new stuff, but if it's rumoured steamheads, then it could be an entire new range like with the slayers or the ironjawz.



#18 Thrundorin

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 09:36 PM

I expect that we are going to be rolled into the Ironweld Arsenal - its where our artillery, gyro-copters and engineers have already gone. A combo of that and dispossessed/free peoples and you have a fairly "central" themed army list. At least that is what I am expecting them to do...



#19 Thorvald the Relentless

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 01:48 AM

I suppose Ironweld Arsenal will get its own treatment as well. It could be quite a good move and fluff, but now there are not even rumors about the steamheads...



#20 Zidane_blade

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 06:16 AM

Last thing I heard was steamheads in november.





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