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Future Of Age Of Sigmar

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#41 Cuthbo

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 01:53 PM

I agree that this cold, salty Banana Coffee is free. But I guess If given the option i'd rather buy the lovely characterful old coffee and heat it up in the microwave than drink this free swill. Or if the only coffee available is free Banana Coffee i'd rather have no coffee and start drinking tea. 

 

Dress the Banana Coffee up as much as you like, give it away for free - It still tastes of banana. 



#42 Slembo

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 02:05 PM

*Slembo puts his 8th edition tome in the microwave to see if it gets autoFAQed after 90 sec of 700W.*



#43 sgreg308

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 02:39 PM

YOU don't have to do anything slembo. In fact this community could just detonate and it would be whatever. You could just sit here and grumble all day and night and stay playing an unsupported 8th or switch games entirely. It doesn't matter, you do whatever you want. Irrelevant to conversation. Either we build a new community centered around AoS which is the new warhammer with dwarfs in it or we dont. Period. Honestly it doesn't matter to me how this forum takes the game. My local meta (all the old vet players who drive tournaments etc.) just had the officially unofficial play test of AoS a couple days ago and they loved it. Said it was the first time they've had real fun and games pushing gee dubs minis in a while. They liked how stream lined the game play was AND, get this, this is crazy...they want to write scenarios for the next tournament!!! I know! Hard to believe right?!

I suggest if your meta is so bleak, organizing a local Facebook page and getting some games going. That's what we do here and it work wonders. New players get sent to join the page as well. It helps organize local tourneys and casual pick up games. Also our local gee dubs store is more lively than I've ever seen it (anecdotal I know).

Anyhow you all are welcome to hate the new product, but at the end of the day it is the new warhammer and it's got dwarfs. Both of which I love. It's also very fun to play imo. Whether that means my IQ is dropping remains to be seen. I however, doubt that it is. I'm excited with all the attention gee dubs is giving the game and I'm going to go embrace the hobby in its entirety. I've bought the starter set. It's almost together now and I'm going to play it against all my friends and some family. I'm going to go have fun with this fun game. You do whatever you want and we'll all be happier for it.

Good luck gentlemen. Happy gaming to you all.

Oh and Pellegrim since you seem to be mysteriously incapable of finding any of the positive battle reports or strategy videos I'll leave you with this gem.

https://www.google.c...m8aC84quNC2ywgQ

#44 Pellegrim

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 03:56 PM

True - alot of grubling going on. Let's hope others dawi can share their experiences from their local meta also - the more experience, the better the thread :)

PS thanks for the link - I will look at it. I'll also look at videos from Ash, I like his reports

#45 sgreg308

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 04:08 PM

True - alot of grubling going on. Let's hope others dawi can share their experiences from their local meta also - the more experience, the better the thread :)

PS thanks for the link - I will look at it. I'll also look at videos from Ash, I like his reports


No problem. I forget the youtube channel name but a couple (I assume irish) fellows play through the box set scenarios and then do a game of duardin vs high elves and it was an excellent report. Good showing and its all very sensibly put. In fact here's a link to a video they did.

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=B6pCmPgwUOQ

I watched all their videos and some others. Simply put, I think the way the interwebs is nowa days, you will find things you are looking for as in it will populate related items without you explicitly saying so in future searches and browses. In other words the more negative political rants I search for the more likely I am to find other negative political rants. Conversely if I search directly for positive political videos, it will soon be all I find. Eventually it becomes difficult to find contrary stuff. Tricksy advertising data mining techniques me thinks. Anyhow good luck in your endeavors. Try writing up some scenarios of your own for some balance and give the game a whirl! I think you'll be pleasantly surprised if put an honest effort in it and let me know what you think of that approach!

#46 Krudd Kraggsson

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 04:12 PM

@ cuthbo. A punch in the face is also free. Doesnt mean i want it. (A more appropriate analogy for AoS?)

#47 Gandulag

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 04:50 PM

From what I can tell AoS seems to be pretty popular. I tend to look up some Fantasy and AoS stuff on Instagram to try and get a few painting tips and look at how people paint, inspiration and the like. 

 

For Fantasy, there are roughly 15,000 posts. For AoS 3,000. AoS has been out for about a month. In that span of time there are thousands of posts, 1/5 of Fantasy in as little as a month, whereas Fantasy has been around for much longer.

 

To me, that indicates that it's either gaining popularity or is just the flavor of the month.

 

As Sgreg308 points out there are also numerous battlereports on youtube that say and show promising things about the game. There are also negative reports, of course.

 

I'm a bit bummed how my brief introduction and investment in 8th was quickly capsized, though I'm still happy that I can field my dwarfs in AoS. Seeing how many resources GW is investing in AoS I remain optimistic that good change can be around the corner. As mountain mentioned, I wouldn't be surprised if they release a more 'in depth' rule set somewhere down the line once they've accumulated a larger clientele. New quick fast rules for the beginning introduce people to the new game, provide supplemental rules to make it more competitive and complex. Though this can be wishful thinking.

 

 



#48 Krudd Kraggsson

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 10:22 PM

Seeing how many resources GW is investing in AoS I remain optimistic that good change can be around the corner. As mountain mentioned, I wouldn't be surprised if they release a more 'in depth' rule set somewhere down the line once they've accumulated a larger clientele. New quick fast rules for the beginning introduce people to the new game, provide supplemental rules to make it more competitive and complex. Though this can be wishful thinking.


This is what I keep hearing from those defending AoS. It will get better, we simply have to wait for the next release, improvements are just around the corner. This seems to be what GW are relying upon to keep sales up - a false sense of hope and anticipation. They present us with something (many) people dont like, but people kid themselves - due to GWs total lack of dialogue with consumers - that something else will be released soon to miraculously fix it all. It happened all through the end times, as things got progressively worse. And now its got even worse with AoS, yet people are still expecting the next thing to make it all ok.

Actually, we should expect better from a market leading company with 30 years experience in this industry. For example, by way of comparison, a new model of iPhone might have a few teething problems when its first released, but its still a seriously slick product straight off the shelf. If apple produced the smartphone equivalent of AoS the company would take serious financial and reputational damage, and customers would not hang around patiently for possible, unknown improvements, that might be released, at some point in the future.

#49 Gandulag

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Posted 01 August 2015 - 12:00 AM

And why shouldn't people remain optimistic? Should they all resort to doom and gloom? Burn their old WHFB army? No. There's nothing wrong with hoping for, or anticipating improvement. If people buy the models or not it's their prerogative. No one is forcing anyone to purchase, or play, anything.

#50 Skull Krusher

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Posted 01 August 2015 - 01:51 AM

Two big independent wargaming stores in my area, more if you drive north 2 1/2 hours or east 4 hours.  Anyway these two stores in my area sell G.W. products.  Miniumn order for AoS is 70 of the introduction boxes.  Store number 1 sold 7 boxes and sent the rest back for credit.  Store number 2 still has 65 boxes inventory.  In my area there are regularily two WHF campaigns going on involving 20 plus players in each league.  Both Fantasy and 40K are big in the area, and AoS is just not sparking the interest that WHF did.  The stores even had the games available prior to the sales date to promote sales by demo'ing the game...  I think it is still a wait-and-see if it will be as popular.  I think not.  I went by the store number 1 and there are two tables with Manti being played and this is at noon on a friday...

 

 

On a side note; the commission painters in my area are not taking in as many commissions for painting fantasy, 40K commission on the other hand is picking up.... Hmmmm


Edited by Skull Krusher, 01 August 2015 - 01:52 AM.


#51 Montegue

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Posted 01 August 2015 - 02:10 AM

Given their history with the last two years of almost no FAQ or Errata changes, I have little faith. I think GW has bought into it's own echo chamber chorus of "this is for fun so folks can just figure it out. Narrative forged!". 

 



#52 Pellegrim

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Posted 01 August 2015 - 05:37 AM

That does not look good Skull Crusher.... very bad actually.

#53 Pellegrim

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Posted 01 August 2015 - 10:24 AM

Another poll on the matter

http://www.bugmansbr...by-rob-hawkins/

#54 sgreg308

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Posted 01 August 2015 - 01:22 PM

Oh well, guess it will just have to fail then. Tsk Tsk tsk.

#55 Pellegrim

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 08:58 PM

As promised, just watched a battle report from Ash, Ogres vs O&G's.

Made alot of notes, my findings in short:

- the hero abilities are cool - they'll work in any game system (sigh)
- the scenario's are cool - they'll work in any game system (sigh sigh)
- the scenery effects are cool - they'll etc etc ...
- 'pile in' is cool idea - but should never work like this (a unit will not circle around an enemy if there is a fair chance another unit will charge into them next round). I think 3rd ed or Fantasy Warriors had a better rule.
- to-wound and to-hit are simplified and wounds and attacks are upped, to streamline the game - this does not work optimal imo - it slows the game down. They threw in multi-wounds and many comparable effects to compensate. Think GW made a poor call here.
- 'fleeing' is broken.

My take on AoS so far
- It can be a fun skirmish game for low number games, that has cool features, that has balance problems, and that becomes slow when units get into close combat
- The game uses models from a prior game that had tens of thousands of player/fans across the globe, that the company plugged without notification. The two games differ too much to assume the player base converts. Since players are your best tool to spread the word, GW messed up terribly.
- I truly hope there is enough support from newbies for AoS - we all know GW needs it
- It has a chance if it gets improved 2nd edition rules very soon
- I will not bother playing AoS

Considerations
- If GW added hero abilities, scenery abilities and great scenario's (plus some minor mechanic improvements) to WFB, they could have kept old players and new players. It absolutely boggles my mind that GW did not inject goodies into 8th to keep it alive....it's like they focussed on 40k or just wanted to kill off fantasy. Imagine if they spend all the energy of 'End Times' (the steal of the century), into viable cool scenario's / abilities / improvements for 8th on a steady basis - with vision and guidence

Edited by Pellegrim, 02 August 2015 - 09:01 PM.


#56 Weezheat

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 11:24 PM

As promised, just watched a battle report from Ash, Ogres vs O&G's.

Made alot of notes, my findings in short:

- the hero abilities are cool - they'll work in any game system (sigh)
- the scenario's are cool - they'll work in any game system (sigh sigh)
- the scenery effects are cool - they'll etc etc ...
- 'pile in' is cool idea - but should never work like this (a unit will not circle around an enemy if there is a fair chance another unit will charge into them next round). I think 3rd ed or Fantasy Warriors had a better rule.
- to-wound and to-hit are simplified and wounds and attacks are upped, to streamline the game - this does not work optimal imo - it slows the game down. They threw in multi-wounds and many comparable effects to compensate. Think GW made a poor call here.
- 'fleeing' is broken.

My take on AoS so far
- It can be a fun skirmish game for low number games, that has cool features, that has balance problems, and that becomes slow when units get into close combat
- The game uses models from a prior game that had tens of thousands of player/fans across the globe, that the company plugged without notification. The two games differ too much to assume the player base converts. Since players are your best tool to spread the word, GW messed up terribly.
- I truly hope there is enough support from newbies for AoS - we all know GW needs it
- It has a chance if it gets improved 2nd edition rules very soon
- I will not bother playing AoS

Considerations
- If GW added hero abilities, scenery abilities and great scenario's (plus some minor mechanic improvements) to WFB, they could have kept old players and new players. It absolutely boggles my mind that GW did not inject goodies into 8th to keep it alive....it's like they focussed on 40k or just wanted to kill off fantasy. Imagine if they spend all the energy of 'End Times' (the steal of the century), into viable cool scenario's / abilities / improvements for 8th on a steady basis - with vision and guidence

 

Allow me to throw some points for consideration. Only because I feel that as a new player, who picked up 8th in February of this year (meaning, very late) as the 1st tabletop wargame ever, I can provide a different point of view on GW and WFB.

 

Why GW destroyed a world with over 30+ years of history and in particular when a huge computer video game is coming out based off of it, is incomprehensible, in my eyes. I agree that they should have grabbed 8th and made changes to it, as opposed to destroying it.

 

But 3 points to consider:

 

- Hero abilities: We're in an age where MOBAs and other quick computer games are dominating gaming and Heroes and abilities are an important part of that. Plus, it adds a new dimension to our characters.

 

- Simplified to hit/wound: This is something to attract new blood. The WS comparison and the SvT was complicated to explain and understand for newbies. I literally just played a small game vs my wife, who is the last person you'd think would play a game, and it was easy to explain and turn 2 she was understanding what she needed to hit. I understand this is a double edged sword - Some people don't want something SO simple, but it definitely helps bring new blood in.

 

- The biggest problem with 8th was the barrier to entry. Games got big and some people never have any intention of playing a 1000pt starter game, that a brand new person had to spend several hundreds of dollars and spend countless hours painting to even play their 1st game at 2000/2500pts. To this day, I haven't even played a 2500 game of 8th (granted, I started a 2nd army too), but still. The point is if WFB had a very small player base, how do you as GW bring new blood to the game and make games more accessible to people?

Personally, I think there were other ways, but I think that's part of the reason they said "We gotta blow it up and start again small".

 

My point is, I agree with you that AoS as is wasn't needed, but the huge barriers to entry of 8th were its biggest issue, so just "Adding" some items of AoS wouldn't have turned the tide. You needed something different.



#57 Strongbeard_Liam

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 02:27 AM

I agree with the paint point, takes forever!!! But if you want to make a NEW army from GW, every purchase is 60 at least! So unless you buy the starter set your gonna be at least 300 deep in no time flat

#58 sgreg308

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 02:55 AM

I agree with the paint point, takes forever!!! But if you want to make a NEW army from GW, every purchase is 60 at least! So unless you buy the starter set your gonna be at least 300 deep in no time flat


All true points. The new game does seem to encourage smaller battles though for whatever that's worth.

#59 Gandulag

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 03:20 AM

I agree with the paint point, takes forever!!! But if you want to make a NEW army from GW, every purchase is 60 at least! So unless you buy the starter set your gonna be at least 300 deep in no time flat


Agreed, but one can easily play a few games with a battalion box ~150$ depending, and either nominate a general or purchase a centrepiece to make your army look epic. Still steep but I think one purchase with a large number of models isess daunting than several boxes of 50-70$

#60 Pellegrim

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 05:11 AM

GW could have worked out cool scenario's and starter sets for 8th, while adjusting the rules a little - but I think we are slowy agreeing ;)





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