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How Are Dwarfs Looking With The New Rules/abilities?

army list generator aos age of sigmar duardin

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#41 Gamlith

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 11:53 PM

I know I said it before but the more I look at our rulebook and the other armies, the more I see the game rewarding offence rather than defense. What does this mean? (opinion) The days of castling are over. Why? From what I've seen in other armies hitting the opponent hard and fast is superior to castling up, a tactic we are all used to.

 

Britonian Treb- I don't see anymore templates used. The thing targets and rolls to hit and wound. The values make it so you can annihilate something in one go. Perhaps MSU will be a thing now.

TK Skeletal Horsemen- the thing can move and then charge if it likes. Turn one it can  charge you from across the board, hit you, kill you due to boosted damage on charge, and move on.

Wood elf- a whole scroll that allows you to deploy in any movement phase you whole army anywhere in like 3 or 6" of the enemy. (barring some restrictions) Lol

 

This is only a taste. I'm not impressed by dwarves this time around. We may have the power on some units but we lack the speed and mobility at the insane levels others have. 



#42 Svidragailov

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 12:04 AM

I think while other army's seem built for fast paced offense our's has remained a primarily defensive minded build.  I'm running a set up this weekend which I plan on not moving much at all but rather punishing my opponent at range so they are forced to come to me.  Then taking advantage of buffs from Anvil + Runelord + Thane BSB nullifying the need to take battleshock tests, grinding it out up close and personal.

 

The GT is a great monster sniper now.  Three wounds per hit every hit.  Put an engineer near it an you're firing twice per turn.

 

Cannon and Organ I'm using to mow up big packs rather than single targets.  

 

Using Thorek and Belegar as heroes.  Buffs from Thorek with Kraggi and Belegar for some punishing offense.

 

Will have my Ironbreakers using 3+ rerollable armor save via shieldwall and then 2 attacks back.  Plus most of our units ignore spell effects on a roll of 5 or 6 normally (Icon Bearer and Runic Icon rules)



#43 Granitbeard

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 01:18 AM

Hey we shut down the magic phase again like real pros tho.



#44 Montegue

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 04:19 AM

Little rage inducing bit if insult to injury - an Orc Boy with the a shield, and really any Orc or goblin with a shield, gets to reroll all failed saves all the time. We have to set a gddamn shield wall at the cost of a charge or run move to do it.

Ayfkm?

#45 Guest_Mountain_*

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 09:15 AM

Think our Shieldwall should work in magic and shooting as well. Or get+1 Save as well in Shieldwall.

#46 Grumpgrim

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 11:45 AM

Little rage inducing bit if insult to injury - an Orc Boy with the a shield, and really any Orc or goblin with a shield, gets to reroll all failed saves all the time. We have to set a gddamn shield wall at the cost of a charge or run move to do it.

Ayfkm?

 

A rerollable 6 most the time, because there is a lot of rend 1. Ironbreakers get a 4+ rerollable, because they ignore rend 1. Rend 2 is a lot less common. And on top of that, who running a shieldwall build will not have an anvil and smiths totting along for armour and ward buffs?

 

 

 

 

Think our Shieldwall should work in magic and shooting as well. Or get+1 Save as well in Shieldwall.

Shields work in magic and shooting. It's just a rerollable save we can get from standing still.

Also, we get a 5+ auto-dispell against magic from our unit banners.





Right now, I'm seeing builds around Anvil shieldwalls and Ungrim slayer horde. Depending on whether you want to be offensives or defensive.

 



#47 Gothnomicon

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 12:14 PM

RE: Gyrocopter

If you're staying out at 3" range, you're missing out. Sure, you'll have to do that on the first turn, but then charge in. If you're still around next turn, the gyro can shoot into combat and probably get the whole unit. Also, since you can apparently disengage out of close combat, feel free to pick your fights.

 

Also apparently the steam gun is incredibly precise and can just target things in one unit. Feel free to shoot right next to your buddies who are in close combat - they are in no danger from you and they need air support!

 

Also, don't forget the key wording in the Gyrocopter write-up - "A Dwarf Gyrocopters unit can have any number of models." You need to take a dozen Gyrocopters, LOL! Who said GW has given up on trying to sell fantasy models...

 

Somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but a lot of what I'm seeing with AoS is that we're all still stuck in our 8th-ed mentality. If I'm going to be model-count-limited, then I'm going to make sure I pick good models to field.

 

RE: Gyrobomber

This may be our sleeper unit with 4+ d3 mortal wounds. A proper Duardin bomber squadron should be terrifying especially without a 'look out sir' roll anymore.

 

Wow, now that I'm thinking about it. New tactics...

 

Fly a bomber squadron up to the enemy. If you have range, fly over the unit you wish to bomb, stopping 3" past them (but turned around to face them for a second fly-by). You'll get to bomb plus shoot each turn. If you're charged and survive the first attack, just fly over them on the next turn - rules don't say you can't disengage once you're in combat. It looks like this falls under the retreat discussion under Enemy Models where it says if you retreat, you can't shoot or charge in that turn, but it doesn't disallow bomb dropping which is a part of our movement.

 

Oh the hilarity!



#48 Montegue

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 01:42 PM

You can only flee or remain still as soon as you are within 3" of an enemy unit. So, we could retreat. I don't see a restriction on using our bombs on another unit if we fly over them while fleeing from the enemy, though. 



#49 Guest_Mountain_*

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 02:11 PM

 

Little rage inducing bit if insult to injury - an Orc Boy with the a shield, and really any Orc or goblin with a shield, gets to reroll all failed saves all the time. We have to set a gddamn shield wall at the cost of a charge or run move to do it.

Ayfkm?

 

A rerollable 6 most the time, because there is a lot of rend 1. Ironbreakers get a 4+ rerollable, because they ignore rend 1. Rend 2 is a lot less common. And on top of that, who running a shieldwall build will not have an anvil and smiths totting along for armour and ward buffs?

 

 

 

 

Think our Shieldwall should work in magic and shooting as well. Or get+1 Save as well in Shieldwall.

Shields work in magic and shooting. It's just a rerollable save we can get from standing still.

Also, we get a 5+ auto-dispell against magic from our unit banners.





Right now, I'm seeing builds around Anvil shieldwalls and Ungrim slayer horde. Depending on whether you want to be offensives or defensive.

 

 

 

Orcs and Goblins get only reroll Save in CC and move freely. It work as same as our Shieldwall which we only get reroll in CC. But we can only move 4 inch and that it.

Agree that it look like Dwarfs gonna go Shieldwall, Thorek, Runelord and warmachine or go with Slayer Gyro and Umgrim.



#50 Grumpgrim

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 02:50 PM

Since you can fire into combat I expect a lot of our meta to revolve around locking the enemy down while our guns blast away into the melee.



#51 Durak

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 03:39 PM

I don't see the point.

Dwarf player: "I killed half your army! Ha!"

Chaos player: "4+. I summon my entire collection onto the board."

Replace chaos player with undead, lizard men or daemon.

Literally summon as much as you want.

#52 Svidragailov

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 03:48 PM

Well.....if you are not setting any sort of limitation on the models brought to an individual fight I could see that being a problem...

 

BUT if you're playing a friendly game you'd most likely be setting parameters for army sizes to prevent something like that

 

Same thing in tournament play.

 

So the only person who decides to try and be tricky and "Summon my entire collection onto the board" will be playing their last game as no one is going to want to play with someone being unreasonable....



#53 Grumpgrim

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 03:57 PM

I don't see the point.

Dwarf player: "I killed half your army! Ha!"

Chaos player: "4+. I summon my entire collection onto the board."

Replace chaos player with undead, lizard men or daemon.

Literally summon as much as you want.

 

"If we do X the game becomes unplayable"

 

Then agree to restrict X for now, until we have army building rules. And hope the upcoming AoS app and scenario books give us restrictions.

There is nothing inherently unbalanced with summoning, the issue is that with no army building restrictions you can't do the natural thing and give it a high points cost. Chaos can summon his whole collection, sure, but the dwarf can start the game by placing down 200 warmachines. Agree with your opponent on restrictions.


Edited by Grumpgrim, 07 July 2015 - 04:00 PM.


#54 Granitbeard

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 04:27 PM

I don't see the point.

Dwarf player: "I killed half your army! Ha!"

Chaos player: "4+. I summon my entire collection onto the board."

Replace chaos player with undead, lizard men or daemon.

Literally summon as much as you want.

 

except I would hope you have at least one or two Runepriests on the table, we can easily shut down 2 spells a turn (normal stopping roll+2) , and buff our own guys too.



#55 Tah Kazak Rik

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 05:49 PM

Little rage inducing bit if insult to injury - an Orc Boy with the a shield, and really any Orc or goblin with a shield, gets to reroll all failed saves all the time. We have to set a gddamn shield wall at the cost of a charge or run move to do it.

Ayfkm?

Yeah this is a bunch of junk. 

Apparently Orc and Goblin shields are pretty much as good as the Armour of Skaldour and equal to Gromril shields....

This is the short of trash I am talking about. GW gave Dwarf players the shaft and copied and pasted rules everywhere else.



#56 Gandulag

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 06:10 PM

@Monty and co. (Regarding the topic of Greenskins getting this re-rollable)

 

Possibly, and here is me partly wish-listing, seeing as they are handing out the warscrolls for free, electronically, they will be able to update them based on player feedback? 

 

That being said, MAYBE, depending on if they do or don't release formations, campaign narratives and the like etc. MAYBE they can even add point values if they notice the community is asking for it.

 

I doubt, well certainly hope not, (I haven't been around long enough to judge) that GW is ludicrous enough to release a broken game without the intention of fixing it/releasing things that patch it up in the future. 

 

I think they might have released AoS in order to get something out, show the folks that something 'big' is coming in the hopes to get peoples attention, which arguably it has, and then pump out things.

 

But this can just be me being the ever optimistic and naive beardling... Time will tell.

 

 



#57 Tah Kazak Rik

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 06:19 PM

@Monty and co. (Regarding the topic of Greenskins getting this re-rollable)

 

Possibly, and here is me partly wish-listing, seeing as they are handing out the warscrolls for free, electronically, they will be able to update them based on player feedback? 

 

That being said, MAYBE, depending on if they do or don't release formations, campaign narratives and the like etc. MAYBE they can even add point values if they notice the community is asking for it.

 

I doubt, well certainly hope not, (I haven't been around long enough to judge) that GW is ludicrous enough to release a broken game without the intention of fixing it/releasing things that patch it up in the future. 

 

I think they might have released AoS in order to get something out, show the folks that something 'big' is coming in the hopes to get peoples attention, which arguably it has, and then pump out things.

 

But this can just be me being the ever optimistic and naive beardling... Time will tell.

I agree. We can hope that GW will provide errata and updates based on feedback. There have been several individuals who have reported that GW is in fact listening to players at conventions, taking notes, and answering any and all questions asked of them.

So we can hope that GW will handle the situation accordingly.

It has also been mentioned several times that GW plans on releasing campaign books, scenarios, and so forth containing army construction guidelines.

I personally hope, based on comments from GW reps concerning silly rules and so forth, that the actual AoS Duardin will have unique rules that set them apart from the rest of the armies. And that is my issue, currently the AoS Dwarfs lack anything that truly sets them apart. However I have hope that the Duardin will be unique and have their own strengths, unique rules and so forth.

As it stands we simply have a third tier army it seems.



#58 Montegue

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 07:05 PM

A wish about GW doing something cool like updating rules on these war scrolls for balance and 1.50 will get you a cheap cup of coffee. How long did they ignore the repeated calls for FAQ updates for 8th ed army books? They have no interest in looking backwards to maintain what the mistakes they make or their own lack of clarity.

We already have some rules questions, and the rulebook is only 4 pages. For example - it's unlclear how to count casualties for summoned allies, reinforcements, or reincarnated allies. The book seems to actually indicate that they are *all* counted as casualties at the end of the game, though some (myself included) believe it says they have to be counted *among* the casualites if they were killed. It's actually quite vague. 

But yeah, the chaos lord ability is flipping stupid. Why even bother playing when they will just bring that huge unit back every other turn?  


Edited by Montegue, 07 July 2015 - 07:05 PM.


#59 Tah Kazak Rik

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 07:10 PM

A wish about GW doing something cool like updating rules on these war scrolls for balance and 1.50 will get you a cheap cup of coffee. How long did they ignore the repeated calls for FAQ updates for 8th ed army books? They have no interest in looking backwards to maintain what the mistakes they make or their own lack of clarity.

They seem much more willing to answer questions and deal with the public when it comes to this game. They seem willing to communicate. And that makes me think things will be different this time around.

Let us wait and see. 



#60 Gandulag

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 07:24 PM

They seem much more willing to answer questions and deal with the public when it comes to this game. They seem willing to communicate. And that makes me think things will be different this time around.

Let us wait and see. 

 

 

 

This. This is why I am hopeful. I have heard people saying that they have reps going to events, answering questions, and for the first time really trying to advertise their product (From what I've read). They also put up a shiny new Sigmarite in front of their HQ I believe? It would be utterly foolish to really showcase their product, pump a lot of money into it (which I'm sure they are) to have people turned off by it simply because their rules are inadequate and they are unwilling to change/add to it. After all, presumably these people have business/marketing degrees etc. 

 

For now I'll remain optimistic. 

 

Apologies for the derailment of the thread. 







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