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How Are Dwarfs Looking With The New Rules/abilities?

army list generator aos age of sigmar duardin

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#1 Titaniumbeard

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 05:06 PM

Hey fellow dorfs. I'm a beginner dwarf player & just recently got into Fantasy Battles and have been enjoying the 8th edition very much. How is the AoS "update" looking for us and what are some of the stuff we can look forward to? As well as some summary's on " game-breaking stuff"? I don't really know what would be considered good or bad as of now since I'm just a novice.

 

Best regards, Titanium. 



#2 Thorek Ironbrown

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 05:14 PM

These kind of questions are difficult to answer, since what has been released so far for AoS makes "good" and "bad" inadequate terms. The rules are set up so that you can take, literally, whatever you want to the battle. A thousand slayers in a single unit, or a thousand units of single slayers. Fifteen Kairos Fateweavers and Fifteen Screaming Bells (a recently discovered combo that could potentially allow you to win the game in the first round). A ziljon cannons etc. Since there's no balance, there are no frames of reference either. You need frames of reference to determine what's good, and what is bad.



#3 Montegue

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 05:40 PM

I'm about to play a no holds barred game with a friend. Literally whatever the hell we can bring will hit the table. My whole army, plus some Empire buddies (Steam Tank, probably my Dwarf Cavalry as a stand in For Reiksguard knights, and some other odds and ends). He's got Vampire Counts and Ogres. In theory I could pull chaos and Ogres off the wall but I won't (will stay in-faction). 

It will be crazy and silly and probably fun, but I think that's more because we will make it fun in spite of the game's rules and parameters. 



#4 Grumpgrim

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 05:43 PM

The main thing to know is that AoS is not a successor to 8th edition, it's a completely different game. They just have tenously linked lore and you can use the old models in AoS. 8th is about mass battles, customizable units formations, and most importantly positioning. AoS is a quick and easy skirmish game.

Currently the issue is that AoS does not have enough rules, there are no rules for building an army apart from "bring whatever you like". This makes it impossible to plan out balanced games. Of course the game doesn't officially launch until next week, so some hold out hope there is more to come. If not the rules are simply incomplete.

 



#5 Tah Kazak Rik

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 06:01 PM

Dwarf special characters are useless and there is no need to take them. They are honestly are no better than other races vanilla character choices. 

GW ruined Slayers. They are no longer unbreakable. 

Our legendary Leadership advantage has been pretty much nerfed. Gone are the days of a normal Dwarf being more brave than a Human hero. 

And so forth...



#6 Montegue

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 06:06 PM

Oh, I don't know. Belegar and Grimm are both pretty beastly. Belegar has some nice abilities (I'll be using him today) and Grimm is a walking arsenal. Joseph Bugman will be tromping out with his rangers, as well. I don't have Thorgrimm, so I can't test him out today. I do have Thorek and Kraggi, though. 

 



#7 Titaniumbeard

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 06:12 PM

The main thing to know is that AoS is not a successor to 8th edition, it's a completely different game. They just have tenously linked lore and you can use the old models in AoS. 8th is about mass battles, customizable units formations, and most importantly positioning. AoS is a quick and easy skirmish game.

Currently the issue is that AoS does not have enough rules, there are no rules for building an army apart from "bring whatever you like". This makes it impossible to plan out balanced games. Of course the game doesn't officially launch until next week, so some hold out hope there is more to come. If not the rules are simply incomplete.

 

 

 

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So this means that there could be a 9th edition coming in the near/distant future that has nothing to do with AoS and so on? So they're still supporting 8th edition in tournaments etc? Sorry if some of my questions are "obvious" but as I said I'm a complete novice. Best regards, Titanium.



#8 Tah Kazak Rik

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 06:18 PM

Oh, I don't know. Belegar and Grimm are both pretty beastly. Belegar has some nice abilities (I'll be using him today) and Grimm is a walking arsenal. Joseph Bugman will be tromping out with his rangers, as well. I don't have Thorgrimm, so I can't test him out today. I do have Thorek and Kraggi, though. 

I will grant that Grimm is beastly. His shooting phase alone is potentially devastating. 

But Belegar's weapon is not at all unique. A basic Chaos Lord's Hellglaive is equal, if not better. A basic Tomb King's Monarch Great Blade is superior. 

I also really love how Thorgrim's Wounds make zero sense....A Dwarf Lord who takes shieldsbearers gains 2 wounds. But they start at 5 wounds. So they get 7 wounds. Yet Thorgrim has 8 wounds, even though he has 4 Thronebearers. Thorgrim should have 9 wounds....

Thorgrim's weapon is also equal with many vanilla character weapons, the Tomb King blade mentioned above is one example.



#9 Thorek Ironbrown

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 06:18 PM

They're not supporting 8th edition anymore. It's possible there might be a "9th edition" of sorts coming. There are rumours there will be additional rules releases. There are also rumours that there will be no additional rules releases, so it's hard to say at the moment. If there's anything more on the horizon however it will be related to AoS. There won't be any stand-alone 9th edition.



#10 Grumpgrim

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 08:59 PM


----------------------

 

So this means that there could be a 9th edition coming in the near/distant future that has nothing to do with AoS and so on? So they're still supporting 8th edition in tournaments etc? Sorry if some of my questions are "obvious" but as I said I'm a complete novice. Best regards, Titanium.

 


There is no 9th on the rumour horizon. But since GW says nothing, so we know nothing. Don't hold your breath though.

8th books is no longer supported, but models are, all tournaments are run by the fans and not GW. Currently people will just continue playing 8th. The community is debating whether we will be using a fan run and updated 8th managed by the tournament comp guys or if we will use alternative rule systems that allow GW models, like Kings of War.

For the near future expect 8th to still be played and people to experiment to see if we like AoS or not. It's not even out officially until next week so it will take a while for the internet to settle down and give a fair assessment of AoS. Currently it looks like it's not for everyone, and a lot of people are upset GW dropped 8th.

 

 

Dwarf special characters are useless and there is no need to take them. They are honestly are no better than other races vanilla character choices. 

GW ruined Slayers. They are no longer unbreakable. 

Our legendary Leadership advantage has been pretty much nerfed. Gone are the days of a normal Dwarf being more brave than a Human hero.

This is very interesting, as my read of the battlescroll was that I finally want to field Thorgrim, the Anvil and Slayers as they finally sound good. 

Clearly we are working from very different assumptions of how the meta of AoS will look. I expect it will take some time to figure out what works and what doesn't.

 



#11 Wendersnaven

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 10:14 PM

GW has alienated a large percent of current Warhammer Fantasy players.

 

I've joked about the company trying to go bankrupt, as this seems to be a valid business strategy these days. I don't know what they'll do, but I can only see three outcomes:

1.) Age of Stupid will be immensely successful and make good sales. (Least likely.)

 

2.) Age of Stupid will fail and GW will make plans to bring Warhammer back to Warhammer. (Probable.)

 

3.) Age of Stupid makes a mediocre amount of sales and the shareholders make GW drop it all together because there's no money in it. (Most likely.)



#12 Titaniumbeard

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 12:03 AM

Really don't like what I'm seeing so far. Just when I was getting into the 8th... And I know you can always just play the old one & keep that going strong or " fan made stuff " but it just sucks so bad that we can't get " the real deal " as in " the 9th edition " which is just a more polished/better 8th edition with them actually listening to their players and not this dumbed-down idiocy for kids. Bugmans Brewery will still remain a place for 8th edition if I got that right though & a new site will be formed for Age of Sigmar stuff? Thanks for all your replies, keep em coming to keep moral high for everyone!



#13 Gamlith

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 12:52 AM

After reviewing some of our artillery, I'd rather take the new flame cannon over the new organ gun any day lol



#14 Titaniumbeard

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 01:14 AM

After reviewing some of our artillery, I'd rather take the new flame cannon over the new organ gun any day lol

 

 

What has changed? 



#15 Gamlith

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 02:17 AM

organ gun only gets d6 attacks. to hit is based upon how many crew are left. to wound is still good.. I have this feeling per turn of shooting it would do 3 wounds if i'm lucky.

 

Flame cannon has 1 attack with range based upon how many crew is left. maximum 24 in range. I think it auto hits the unit and auto wounds based upon d3 (d6 boostable thing. Also roll again for a 50/50 chance to inflict the same damage again.

 

flame cannon seems more reliable , accurate, and hard hitting compared to the organ gun. I hope I mis-read this though.


Edited by Gamlith, 05 July 2015 - 02:23 AM.


#16 Gamlith

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 02:21 AM

Also My impression and opinion is this age of sigmar is about offence period. I don't see any toughness stats while at the same time I see alot of "rend" (armor piercing) reducing saves. This along with base to hit rolls (which are pretty good on all models ( like 3's and 4's) makes surviving attacks very hard. The best defense now is the best offence. I don't think my ironbreakers are as a secure block as the used to be.....

 

Of course this is all my opinion based upon the info I have seen. I plan to test it soon.



#17 Mountain Mammoth

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 05:36 AM

Iron breakers in a shieldwall, backed by an anvil of doom (thorek), would have a rerollable 3+ and would ignore rend (-1). Add in a rune lord and you get either more rend (-2 on your pair of attacks per breaker) or another 6+ save that also works on mortal wounds. Not too shabby.

Cannons also seem powerful, strangely more so against rank and file. From my reading, multi wounds cleave through to the next model. So cannons at full health get 2 shots that hit on a 4+ (rerollable with an engineer or Grimm), wounds on a 2+. Each successful to wound does d6 wounds ( which you can reroll against enemy units with 10+ models). Suddenly cannons seem even better against mobs than monsters.

Longbeards also look interesting as they can get the same 3+ rerollable as the breakers but can also pull command ability shenanigans with our multiple dwarf lord type characters (oath of vengeance and ancestral grudge together = one dead enemy unit if lots of dwarfs pile in on it)

Still to early to see how all this could stack up against what other people are bringing, but that may not be the point. Age of sigmar seems more like a trust fall exercise than a cut throat tourney game. We will just have this see if the community can play for "fun", as these rules seem ridiculously easy to munchkin/break.

#18 Gamlith

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 06:02 AM


Still to early to see how all this could stack up against what other people are bringing, but that may not be the point. Age of sigmar seems more like a trust fall exercise than a cut throat tourney game. We will just have this see if the community can play for "fun", as these rules seem ridiculously easy to munchkin/break.

 

What I'm doing is using the point values from 8th edition since most models being used are still the same. So if I want to play a 1000 point game, use 8th edition point values and AOS stats/rules. Seem doable......for now.



#19 Grumpgrim

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 06:52 AM

organ gun only gets d6 attacks. to hit is based upon how many crew are left. to wound is still good.. I have this feeling per turn of shooting it would do 3 wounds if i'm lucky.

 

Flame cannon has 1 attack with range based upon how many crew is left. maximum 24 in range. I think it auto hits the unit and auto wounds based upon d3 (d6 boostable thing. Also roll again for a 50/50 chance to inflict the same damage again.

 

flame cannon seems more reliable , accurate, and hard hitting compared to the organ gun. I hope I mis-read this though.

 

1d6 shots per barrel. You can load up to 4 barrels, but that increases risk of missfire. So you can fire 4d6.


Flamecannon auto hits and autowounds with no saves and on a 4+ the fire spreads for more wounds. Great for murdering big bads.

 

 

Also My impression and opinion is this age of sigmar is about offence period. I don't see any toughness stats while at the same time I see alot of "rend" (armor piercing) reducing saves. This along with base to hit rolls (which are pretty good on all models ( like 3's and 4's) makes surviving attacks very hard. The best defense now is the best offence. I don't think my ironbreakers are as a secure block as the used to be.....

 

All stats are relatively similar, what you want to look at is special rules. And especially the ability to stack special rules and buffs ontop of each other. Enough things working together can buff a unit to high heaven. Notice especially that Heros that are not your general can still use their command ability if near longbeards, allowing for some crazy combos.

Ironbreakers have rerollable saves and ignore the majority of rends. Making them one of the toughest units in the game. Stack with runelords and anvil for synergy.


Our leadership is just above most other armies, but we have a ton of different special rules allowing us to ignore the results of battleshock. Use them all in synergy and we basically never flee. And remember battleshock is not 8th panic check, our leadership may seem low but tests are now on a single d6.

Battleshock is 1d6 + casualties. meaning a bravery 7 unit will seldom if ever lose men. If we do our formation says we only fail on a 4+, and our banners halve the number of fleeing models, nearby longbeards return fleeing models on a 5+. And hell if you just don't like running, units within 16" of the BSB ignore all battleshock tests period.


Edited by Grumpgrim, 05 July 2015 - 06:57 AM.


#20 HoR

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 09:51 AM

Well at least the Stormcast eternal you get in the WD can be converted into a brilliant looking Gronti Duraz by using an Irondrake head.







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