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A Voice For Combat Dwarves In Competitive Play


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#1 Mountain Mammoth

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 03:50 AM

So last weekend I took the list below to the US Masters tournament and ended 13th in battle points/ 20th over all and best in race to boot (despite some very stiff competition from other proud dawi players with very nasty traditional lists).  Not to mention that I was playing at the 3rd table tied for 6th in round 6 and was 1 inch short of the charge I needed to beat my final ogre opponents gutstar (m3 is a struggle) and probably end in the top 5.  All that with the "softest" comp score in the tournament (3 wasted points over the 14 cap).

 

Rurias on the March

 

 

Swedish comp score 17

Total Points 2500

 

Lords 12.32% total Swedish Comp (-8)

            Dwarf Lord- King Daine Baldriksson of Clan Holderhek

308pts Shieldbearers, shield, Runic Axe with Master Rune of Swiftness, Rune of Might, and Rune of Parry, Runic Crown with 3 Runes of Warding

 

Heroes 17.5%, total Swedish Comp (-43)

            Thane- Joms Schulman

197pts, Battles Standard Bearer, Pistol, Great weapon, Runic Standard with Master Rune of Grungni, and the Strollaz Rune

Runesmith- Helga Holderhek

123pts shield Runic Talisman with Master Rune of Passage and 2 Runes of SpellBreaking, Runic Armor with Rune of Stone

Runesmith- Snorri Blackhand

118pts shield Runic Talisman with Rune of the Furnace and 2 Runes of Spellbreaking, Runic Armor with Rune of Stone

 

Core 26.48% total Swedish Comp (-21)

Longbeards-29

442pts Shield, Full Command, Runic Banner with Strollaz

Dwarf Warriors-10

, Great weapons, Musician

Dwarf Warriors-10

, Great weapons, Musician

 

Special Troops 26.68% total Swedish Comp (-40)

            Gyrocopter

            

            Gyrocopter

            100pts Vanguard

            Gyrocopter

            100pts Vanguard

            Ironbreakers-23

            387pts, Full Command, Runic Banner with Stoicism

 

Rare Troops 17% total Swedish Comp (-18)

            Rangers-5

            

            Irondrakes-17

355pts Full command with Trollhammer Torpedo, Runic banner with Strollaz and sanctuary

 

It is very similar to the lists that I placed 4th, 1st, and 4th in three no comp GTs in the Mountain Region (Slobberknocker, Lost Souls, Feast of Blades).  I wanted to say something when people questioned the validity of combat dwarves in competitive play.  However I kept my peace as Mountain Region GTs are only ~30 men affairs rather than the 100s that many of your tourney scenes are.  Now that I have actually had some success in a truly difficult field, I just wanted to share it with you all.  Hopefully this will give those of you on the fence about leaving your castles the confidence to put your boots on and slay your enemies the way Grimnir intended; with ax and shield.  I can't promise it will work as well for all of you, as luck and match ups does have a lot to do with how an army performs at a GT.  At the very least I can say that I enjoy playing with combat dwarves more than castle dwarves most days.  And that is enough for me.


Edited by Mountain Mammoth, 24 February 2015 - 04:03 AM.


#2 dwarfsarethebestaround

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 09:35 AM

Hmm.. time for me to write a combat/strollaz list! Nice one by the way :)


Edited by dwarfsarethebestaround, 24 February 2015 - 09:36 AM.


#3 Gotrong Gudmundsson

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 01:29 PM

I was very impressed by your results mate, but I'm still really curious as to how you managed to get them in the first place. I've always been trying to make aggressive lists, but found that warmachines are a necessity in order to stop people from running in circles around your foot-slogging troops.

 

So I did a little bit of stalking, and checked out all of your matchups!

 

Game 1 against OK, shooting and diverters. M6 means he'll pick the fights he wants and you lose.

Game 2 against LZ, with a heavy focus on Saurus and Temple Guard. A dream matchup for the Dwarves I'd say :P You win big!

Game 3 against CD, with the usual gunline, k'daai and stuff. Here you grab... a 20-0? How is that even possible? I need to know!

Game 4 against WE, plenty of avoidance, wild riders and shadow. Here you grab another huge win...? I don't quite get this one either! Why didn't the 5 Deepwood Scouts hold up your entire army? 5 Rangers isn't enough to cover the Strollasz advance alone.

Game 5 against OnG, with a very melee centered list, with a lot of T5 characters in one unit. Probably one of the best matchups you got!

Game 6 against OK with looots of diverters, more shooting and yet again the capability to deny you fights entirely. The final loss.

 

I'd probably rate that 2 optimal matchups and 4 bad ones, but it doesn't seem the Chaos Dwarf or Wood Elf player knew how to counter your vanguarding Dwarves, and somehow took big losses.

 

Your list seems well adapted to the scenarios, which is smart design-. there's potentially 600VP to be had there! What scenario cards did you use in what games (and what did your opponents use)?

 

Which units performed well, and which ones would you change for the next tournie? I'm curious as to why you picked Ironbreakers over Hammerers when you had comp to spare, or why those 2x10 Warriors didn't become even more Longbeards? Why leave them behind?

 

Because I must admit, even though I'm really excited about your seemingly weak list performing well, I'm very skeptical towards it. It's heavily reliant on matchups and the opponent not knowing that the LBs and IBs are a lost cause to engage- I'd be worred about losing the rangers, warrior gws, gyros and irondrakes while either the LBs or IBs run ragged trying to find a fight.

 

Could you give some insight in how you overcome this? How do you usually deploy, what's the goal for each unit? Any noticeable combos or maneuvers?


Edited by Gotrong Gudmundsson, 24 February 2015 - 01:36 PM.


#4 Swordthain

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 02:38 PM

This is precisely why battle reports are so important for evaluating the performance of a force. I've won lots of games with army builds that were just really soft, but that doesn't mean those soft army builds aren't actually soft... Rather, it means that those army builds performed well in their particular contexts. Battle reports provide the contexts wherein an army build may be said to have performed well or not despite its being perceived to be either a soft or strong list. But it's really hard to do the odds and ends of documenting a game while you're concentrating on such high-intensity games, so it's forgivable, I think, when players get back from a GT and have had such a good run with a soft list but no battle reports to show for it.

#5 Thoradin Hammerfall

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 05:14 PM

I was very impressed by your results mate, but I'm still really curious as to how you managed to get them in the first place. I've always been trying to make aggressive lists, but found that warmachines are a necessity in order to stop people from running in circles around your foot-slogging troops.

 

So I did a little bit of stalking, and checked out all of your matchups!

 

Game 1 against OK, shooting and diverters. M6 means he'll pick the fights he wants and you lose.

Game 2 against LZ, with a heavy focus on Saurus and Temple Guard. A dream matchup for the Dwarves I'd say :P You win big!

Game 3 against CD, with the usual gunline, k'daai and stuff. Here you grab... a 20-0? How is that even possible? I need to know!

Game 4 against WE, plenty of avoidance, wild riders and shadow. Here you grab another huge win...? I don't quite get this one either! Why didn't the 5 Deepwood Scouts hold up your entire army? 5 Rangers isn't enough to cover the Strollasz advance alone.

Game 5 against OnG, with a very melee centered list, with a lot of T5 characters in one unit. Probably one of the best matchups you got!

Game 6 against OK with looots of diverters, more shooting and yet again the capability to deny you fights entirely. The final loss.

 

I'd probably rate that 2 optimal matchups and 4 bad ones, but it doesn't seem the Chaos Dwarf or Wood Elf player knew how to counter your vanguarding Dwarves, and somehow took big losses.

 

Your list seems well adapted to the scenarios, which is smart design-. there's potentially 600VP to be had there! What scenario cards did you use in what games (and what did your opponents use)?

 

Which units performed well, and which ones would you change for the next tournie? I'm curious as to why you picked Ironbreakers over Hammerers when you had comp to spare, or why those 2x10 Warriors didn't become even more Longbeards? Why leave them behind?

 

Because I must admit, even though I'm really excited about your seemingly weak list performing well, I'm very skeptical towards it. It's heavily reliant on matchups and the opponent not knowing that the LBs and IBs are a lost cause to engage- I'd be worred about losing the rangers, warrior gws, gyros and irondrakes while either the LBs or IBs run ragged trying to find a fight.

 

Could you give some insight in how you overcome this? How do you usually deploy, what's the goal for each unit? Any noticeable combos or maneuvers?

 

Really interesting analysis.

 

I love the spirit of this list but I have struggled a lot trying to field something similar.  M3 is just so very, very slow.  I would love to hear some advice on the tactics that would go into supporting this playstyle.

 

Thanks again for sharing and congrats on your success at Masters.



#6 Swordthain

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 06:52 PM

I'm sure Swedish comp plays a major role in all of this, too.

#7 Rayn Oathforge

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 07:32 PM

It's a list that is also very hard to get points from with no Warmachines to shoot at.  All of our Warmachines are around a single victory point apiece (150ish) when killed.  Starting at a 14 comp meant opponents either had to engage the blocks or lose to Irondrake shooting and Swedish points.

 

My good friend I traveled up with played this list round 5.  Turn 1 miscast his level 4 and the Trollhammer sniped his Black Orc general.  A leadership 5 was also made after the BSB died to an Arachnarok rear charge for the Dwarfs to hold, reform and seal the deal.  Otherwise great plays made by the Dwarfs and Grimnir was DEFINITELY watching over him!



#8 Mountain Mammoth

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 07:47 PM

At work, but I will try to answer questions and post what I can remember in the battlegrounds tonight when I get home.

#9 Pellegrim

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 08:04 PM

Shieldbeards? MSU of GW warriors and rangers? Ironbreakers? HAHA. This completely proves that it's impossible to claim big GW-wielding block are superior, which is interesting and fun.
So we have a shield-and-axe-wielding strollaz competetive list, next to the "standard" gunline list and great-weapon-wielding hybrid gunline list? Oh no wait, a no-warmachine-thunderers-quarrelers-ironbreakers-irondrakes list just won a 24 person tournament also. Because we can.

Can't wait to read a batt-rep either. 

Well done Mountain Mammoth.



#10 Swordthain

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 08:24 PM

I might prefer to suspend judgment until I see reports--or if none are forthcoming, until I hear reports from others or have my own experience. Also, I might say again, Swedish comp has a huge role to play here, while a force of this sort would be extremely vulnerable in an uncomp'd environment.



#11 Barnie25

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 09:35 PM

Claiming this type of list would not fair well in a uncomped environment is kind of silly if you ask me. He tailored his list with Swedish in mind. In a uncomped environment point denial is much harder as you don't start at an advantage as you do with Swedish.

#12 Gotrong Gudmundsson

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 09:44 PM

Well of course it's with swecomp as a backdrop, but what you've got to keep in mind Swordthain is that this list still outperformed the other shooty lists (including Furgils, which surprisingly ended up as the worst Dwarf at the tournament, place 31... which still isn't bad at all!).

 

Edit: 

Trollhammer sniped his Black Orc general.

 

How? Was the Black Orc standing alone somewhere? The Trollhammer can't snipe something out of a unit.


Edited by Gotrong Gudmundsson, 24 February 2015 - 09:48 PM.


#13 Grey Seer Kwokka

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 02:37 AM

Trollhammer sniped his Black Orc general.


How? Was the Black Orc standing alone somewhere? The Trollhammer can't snipe something out of a unit.

I would also like to know this. I've always loved the Trollhammer Torpedo but being forced to shoot at the same target as the other Irondrakes doesn't seem to make it overly useful.

#14 Montegue

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 04:15 AM

There might have been few enough there to randomize the hit. 

 

In any case - all the doubt should be set aside. MM did what others could not with a list we more or less believed couldn't get the job done. Was it because Swedish? I don't know. He smashed a *lot* of face. One could optimize the list even further without regard for comp and see how it plays against the big dogs and the big lores, etc, when all the gloves come off. What we do know is that his list and the way he played it thrived in the hardest room for Warhammer in the United States, and that's saying a whole hell of a lot. 

I really look forward to the battle reports, however detailed they may be. Huge congrats for making such a showing and impression. The obvious dangers to the list are impact hits, stomps, T-Stomps,  and elite units that can cut through a character wall (if he used one). Which leads me to conclude that Slayers might be a solid option. Stomps and Tstomps cause more hits. Chariots and ogre charges are still a problem, so the Rune of Slowness naturally comes to mind (which he used). 

 

 


Edited by Montegue, 25 February 2015 - 04:17 AM.


#15 Swordthain

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 05:52 AM

Claiming this type of list would not fair well in a uncomped environment is kind of silly if you ask me. He tailored his list with Swedish in mind. In a uncomped environment point denial is much harder as you don't start at an advantage as you do with Swedish.

 

It bears mention, because comp can completely change the logic applied to games of Warhammer.

 

Well of course it's with swecomp as a backdrop, but what you've got to keep in mind Swordthain is that this list still outperformed the other shooty lists (including Furgils, which surprisingly ended up as the worst Dwarf at the tournament, place 31... which still isn't bad at all!).

 

Edit: 

Trollhammer sniped his Black Orc general.

 

How? Was the Black Orc standing alone somewhere? The Trollhammer can't snipe something out of a unit.

 

When something may appear obvious, to fail to state the obvious can mean that subconscious assumptions are taken for granted; pulling one's subconscious assumptions into the realm of conscious awareness ensures that one can engage in cogent evaluation and prevent that evaluation from being unintentionally skewed, and therefore, invalid. It's not so important the fact that a particular army build did well in a particular context as it is why that particular army build did well in that particular context.



#16 Mountain Mammoth

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 06:24 AM

His general was on a Wyvern and it was the Hawkeye shot of the century.  I hit with the trollhammer (on 5+), randomized on the General (on a 5+), he failed his talisman of preservation save (on a 3-), and then I rolled 3 wounds (on a 5+).  That kind of dumb luck can only happen against someone who uses Basha's Axe of Stunty Smashin' (righteous grudge fulfilled if you ask me).  I actually had the trollhammer hammer a river troll that game too which was also fitting.

 

@Gotrong

I will try to get the Chaos Dwarf and the Wood elf report up tomorrow.  

 

The scenario cards really didn't help me that much.  Most of my opponents were canny enough to stop me from getting more than the secondary or tertiary objectives (like 150 vps).

 

All of the units had their moments.  My Lord really shined against the chaos dwarves (str8/10 is fantastic against trains and fire demons).  The gyros are always a good decision.  Even the Warrior darts have their moments (although they do flee a lot, it is more advancing to the rear).  The real sore spot was the longbeards.  29 may be too many.  It is expensive (takes me over the core tax) and I am not certain I wouldn't be better of with a second stoicism on them instead of strollaz.  If I was advising someone else I would probably say that using the Longbeards as the bunker (stoicism on the unit banner and strollaz on the bsb, with the Lord reducing the incoming attacks down to 5 files) would be better supported by stubborn hammerers is mathematically superior.  The thing is, I love ironbreakers.  They are the quintessential dwarf unit for me.  Shield wall in the darkness.  They take a punch, smile and then go to work on most opponents.  If hammerers would stop being such pushovers and learn to use their shields again things might be different, but now they just die to easily for my liking. 

 

The warrior darts are actually very useful and I recommend trying them if you are going to run a strollaz type list.  

1:They are junk drops which helps you place your line units in advantageous match ups.

2: as you line units vanguard forward, the darts still have charge arch that discourages fast units (fast cav, fliers etc) from coming around the flank.  I have had wild riders hang back for fear of entering the 15" range of the warriors.  It is really hard for opponents to gauge how threatening the darts should be.  Some people treat them like real units (over estimate them), others ignore them to their own peril

3: They are cheap and sacrificable.  Sometimes things die (someone needs to jump on a mangler squig for example) and it might as well be 10pt warriors rather than 15pt drakes.

4: They are ready made mini hammers. STR 6 T4, heavy armor can make for a decent flanking unit if all your line shield units are tied up.

5: Killing them for their 110 pts keeps opponents occupied rather than focusing magic and artillery on my breakers or longbeards

6: People never expect a dwarf to flee, so they are more willing to charge a warrior dart and waste their movement when you flee out of their charge range.  With the Musician you rally on a 10 even out the general's range.

7:110pts is a bargain for the crazy lucky things that happen when a combat chaff rolls dice.  I have had them stall an entire flank when they charge some varghiest infront of a black knight bus.  The vargheists fluffed their attacks, the warriors were steadfast and the black knights spent 2 whole turns stationary.

 

 

My general deployment starts with the gyros (as they can go anywhere), then usually the warrior darts.  I sometimes put one on each flank (this usually happens when i am playing a force that i expect will try to out flank me and thus the warriors extend the distance the flankers need to go by their own charge bubble), but usually I like putting them together.  This can either set up a refused flank (it looks like I am deploying left when I actually deploy right) or can us the warriors to attack something in tandem on that flank (i was playing empire and had on dart die to helblaster fire only to have the second avenge their brothers and carry on into the flank of the main combat between the halbideers and the breakers). 

My line units I deploy according to the match up I find most favorable.  Usually I try to get my lord and breakers fighting anything t 5 or higher as my shieldbeards have little chance against such a foe.  If I think my breakers can take their hardest unit (usually the case when fighting empire/bretonnia, most non endtimes elves etc) then I will throw them directly in front of the enemy and dare them to fight me.  The 12" vanguard really rattles some people and usually triggers their fight or flight reflex.  In my experience only WoC and Ogres can fight their way through Ironbreakers and only avoidance elves are fast enough for flight to work  when the enemy is 6-12" away.  In most other cases the enemy will stubble into you because they would rather do that than be charged by str 5 dwarves on the following turn.

 

M3 is a huge struggle, especially if your opponent wants to play hide and seek rather than warhammer.  When used intelligently, charging can help even the odds.  For example if your enemy is 13 inches away, common sense dictates that you not charge, as you need a 10 and that isn't likely to happen.  However if you look at the situation (how much fire are you taking, how much do you need to get into combat etc) and find that moving forward isn't that vital, then declare the charge anyway.  Most of the time you will move at least 4" forward which is almost the same as your march move.  And every now and again you will roll the 5s and 6s.

 

Also I tend to look at chaff as a  trampoline rather than as a speed bump.  For example if someone places a chaff unit 1" away from you, you hit them and roll them and then overrun an average roll like 7", you just moved 2" over your marching speed.



#17 Mountain Mammoth

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 06:39 AM

@Pellegrim  I would say that I understand the merits of GW hordes, but I prefer to play with smaller units.  2 smaller units have double the chances of making a long charge over the single.  However they are less effective if they get there, so it is always a trade off.  I kind of like that our army book can do so many things now.  I actually would like to see/try a dwarven avoidance list with an airforce (6 gyros, 2 bombers), artillery and airborne rangers and thunderer/quarreller core.  I think it could really take people by surprise.  Though it might not work, we won't know until its tried

 

@Barnie25  Actually Swedcomp played no roll in my decision to play the list I did.  I built a list that I felt would be fun to play and strong, plugged it in and saw that it was over the cap and called it a day.  I actually learned to hate artillery as a beardling.  WoC would kick my teeth in during 6th ed when I played with cannons.  It was only in 7th when I start playing with mostly infantry (and two bolt throwers) that I started winning with dwarves.  I play dwarves this way in the uncomped GT events that I play at in the mountain Region.  I will say that I still don't have a good answer for the WoChariots Park and that dark elf avoidance requires a bit of luck (though my lord and breakers have killed Hellbron on several occasions which is something).  



#18 Swordthain

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 07:26 AM

His general was on a Wyvern and it was the Hawkeye shot of the century. I hit with the trollhammer (on 5+), randomized on the General (on a 5+), he failed his talisman of preservation save (on a 3-), and then I rolled 3 wounds (on a 5+). That kind of dumb luck can only happen against someone who uses Basha's Axe of Stunty Smashin' (righteous grudge fulfilled if you ask me). I actually had the trollhammer hammer a river troll that game too which was also fitting.

@Gotrong
I will try to get the Chaos Dwarf and the Wood elf report up tomorrow.

The scenario cards really didn't help me that much. Most of my opponents were canny enough to stop me from getting more than the secondary or tertiary objectives (like 150 vps).

All of the units had their moments. My Lord really shined against the chaos dwarves (str8/10 is fantastic against trains and fire demons). The gyros are always a good decision. Even the Warrior darts have their moments (although they do flee a lot, it is more advancing to the rear). The real sore spot was the longbeards. 29 may be too many. It is expensive (takes me over the core tax) and I am not certain I wouldn't be better of with a second stoicism on them instead of strollaz. If I was advising someone else I would probably say that using the Longbeards as the bunker (stoicism on the unit banner and strollaz on the bsb, with the Lord reducing the incoming attacks down to 5 files) would be better supported by stubborn hammerers is mathematically superior. The thing is, I love ironbreakers. They are the quintessential dwarf unit for me. Shield wall in the darkness. They take a punch, smile and then go to work on most opponents. If hammerers would stop being such pushovers and learn to use their shields again things might be different, but now they just die to easily for my liking.

The warrior darts are actually very useful and I recommend trying them if you are going to run a strollaz type list.
1:They are junk drops which helps you place your line units in advantageous match ups.
2: as you line units vanguard forward, the darts still have charge arch that discourages fast units (fast cav, fliers etc) from coming around the flank. I have had wild riders hang back for fear of entering the 15" range of the warriors. It is really hard for opponents to gauge how threatening the darts should be. Some people treat them like real units (over estimate them), others ignore them to their own peril
3: They are cheap and sacrificable. Sometimes things die (someone needs to jump on a mangler squig for example) and it might as well be 10pt warriors rather than 15pt drakes.
4: They are ready made mini hammers. STR 6 T4, heavy armor can make for a decent flanking unit if all your line shield units are tied up.
5: Killing them for their 110 pts keeps opponents occupied rather than focusing magic and artillery on my breakers or longbeards
6: People never expect a dwarf to flee, so they are more willing to charge a warrior dart and waste their movement when you flee out of their charge range. With the Musician you rally on a 10 even out the general's range.
7:110pts is a bargain for the crazy lucky things that happen when a combat chaff rolls dice. I have had them stall an entire flank when they charge some varghiest infront of a black knight bus. The vargheists fluffed their attacks, the warriors were steadfast and the black knights spent 2 whole turns stationary.


My general deployment starts with the gyros (as they can go anywhere), then usually the warrior darts. I sometimes put one on each flank (this usually happens when i am playing a force that i expect will try to out flank me and thus the warriors extend the distance the flankers need to go by their own charge bubble), but usually I like putting them together. This can either set up a refused flank (it looks like I am deploying left when I actually deploy right) or can us the warriors to attack something in tandem on that flank (i was playing empire and had on dart die to helblaster fire only to have the second avenge their brothers and carry on into the flank of the main combat between the halbideers and the breakers).
My line units I deploy according to the match up I find most favorable. Usually I try to get my lord and breakers fighting anything t 5 or higher as my shieldbeards have little chance against such a foe. If I think my breakers can take their hardest unit (usually the case when fighting empire/bretonnia, most non endtimes elves etc) then I will throw them directly in front of the enemy and dare them to fight me. The 12" vanguard really rattles some people and usually triggers their fight or flight reflex. In my experience only WoC and Ogres can fight their way through Ironbreakers and only avoidance elves are fast enough for flight to work when the enemy is 6-12" away. In most other cases the enemy will stubble into you because they would rather do that than be charged by str 5 dwarves on the following turn.

M3 is a huge struggle, especially if your opponent wants to play hide and seek rather than warhammer. When used intelligently, charging can help even the odds. For example if your enemy is 13 inches away, common sense dictates that you not charge, as you need a 10 and that isn't likely to happen. However if you look at the situation (how much fire are you taking, how much do you need to get into combat etc) and find that moving forward isn't that vital, then declare the charge anyway. Most of the time you will move at least 4" forward which is almost the same as your march move. And every now and again you will roll the 5s and 6s.

Also I tend to look at chaff as a trampoline rather than as a speed bump. For example if someone places a chaff unit 1" away from you, you hit them and roll them and then overrun an average roll like 7", you just moved 2" over your marching speed.

Thanks for this! This was really very helpful!

#19 MeuhMeuh

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 09:53 AM

I played small units of GW warriors myself, for a special tournament scenario (inter region). They were more in the list to provide bonus comp scores, and to grab control over the board (granting VPs every turn). But I have to admit that it made me reconsider them as a usable unit. I played 14 of them (2*7) and they were gold most of the games. As you say, the charge bubble they provide protect our flanks and make life harder for those pesky fast cav/flyers. And they do that for cheap. And they are core.

 

I've seen 15 GW warriors holding an aracknarok for several rounds (to not underestimate LD9, it makes lost fights so much easier to hold), allowing my drakes to get in position to shoot the beast down. While I'm not a huge fan of the MSU/MMU playstyle, I think that small GW warriors drops are defenitly a very viable option, especially in agressive combat lists.



#20 Rayn Oathforge

Rayn Oathforge

    Dwarf Longbeard

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 11:49 AM

Did we play the same Chaos Dwarf player? Super nice dude, had no BSB and two level 1's on fire?




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