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Rune Of Spite.

rune runesmith ap spite magic

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#1 The Grim Delver

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 05:48 PM

Would a Runesmith/Runelord get his innate AP on any hits dished out by the Rune of Spite and would they be magical?

Was thinking of running a Runelord with anvil plus a rune of iron giving him potentially 5 x str5 magical hits with AP before he was down to one wound.



#2 Salgar

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 05:50 PM

I would imagine RoSpite's attacks would be magical, but would probably not be Armor Piercing.

#3 Landy

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 06:39 PM

I would imagine RoSpite's attacks would be magical, but would probably not be Armor Piercing.

Why wouldn't they be armor piercing? He has the AP special rule, which wouldn't be lost just by having a magic weapon, right?

#4 Salgar

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 07:07 PM

He has the AP special rule.

The RoSpite doesn't, and it's the source of those hits. Kinda' like how Forgefire doesn't enhance Crossbows.

That's how I would play it, at any rate.

Edited by Salgar, 06 December 2014 - 07:08 PM.


#5 Zidane_blade

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 07:49 PM

He has the AP special rule.

The RoSpite doesn't, and it's the source of those hits. Kinda' like how Forgefire doesn't enhance Crossbows.

That's how I would play it, at any rate.


+1

#6 Foe-Hammer

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 08:00 PM

He has the AP special rule.

The RoSpite doesn't, and it's the source of those hits. Kinda' like how Forgefire doesn't enhance Crossbows.

That's how I would play it, at any rate.

+1

Same here.

#7 Landy

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 10:45 PM

He has the AP special rule.

The RoSpite doesn't, and it's the source of those hits. Kinda' like how Forgefire doesn't enhance Crossbows.

That's how I would play it, at any rate.

Forgefire doesn't affect crossbows because AP doesn't apply to ranged weapons unless specifically stated. I miss the connection to the RoSpite. What RoSpite does grant is d6 wounds in close combat (NOT d6 extra hits) which AP does apply to. 'Wounds caused in close combat by a model with this special rule (or who is attacking with a weapon that has this special rule) inflict a further -1 armour save modifier, in addition to those from strength.' So unless having a magic weapon somehow makes the attacks no longer 'close combat', I don't see why they shouldn't get the AP.

Edited by Landy, 06 December 2014 - 10:49 PM.


#8 Landy

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 10:51 PM

Sorry, Lads! I got RoSmite and RoSpite mixed up. I'm totally with you!

#9 Zidane_blade

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 07:36 AM

You'll be off the hook....for now....;-)

#10 The Grim Delver

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 11:27 AM

Yeah. I can see where ye are all coming from and I appreciate the answers. It´s a tricky one.

I don´t have the BRB with me at the moment but I thought that wounds caused in close combat by a model with this special rule inflict a further -1 to armour save. The runesmith has that special rule and rune of spite wounds are specifically caused in close combat. If it says different in the rule book, then fair enough.



#11 Landy

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 11:51 AM

Yeah. I can see where ye are all coming from and I appreciate the answers. It´s a tricky one.
I don´t have the BRB with me at the moment but I thought that wounds caused in close combat by a model with this special rule inflict a further -1 to armour save. The runesmith has that special rule and rune of spite wounds are specifically caused in close combat. If it says different in the rule book, then fair enough.

Actually, you may have a point. It doesn't say 'wounds caused with a weapon'; it just says 'wounds caused in close combat by a model with this special rule'. Surely the model of the Runelord is causing the wound even if it came from the RoSpite, no?

#12 The Grim Delver

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 01:00 PM

That was initially my take on it but because I didn´t have the BRB sitting in front of me, I thought I would throw it out for discussion.



#13 Zidane_blade

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 01:26 PM

The hits originate from the magic item, and not the model. Unlike a magic weapon, where it's both special rules from the weapon AND the model.

#14 Montegue

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 01:30 PM

Eh, the magic item is *on* the model. I am leaning towards this working. 



#15 Landy

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 01:36 PM

The hits originate from the magic item, and not the model. Unlike a magic weapon, where it's both special rules from the weapon AND the model.

But if the Runelord model was removed from play, the RoSpite would also be removed, no? So would not the Runelord model be the model that generates the wounds, even if you make the distinction between the Runelord himself and his talisman with a RoSpite?

#16 Zidane_blade

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 02:06 PM

The model have AP, yes, and it's on the model, yes. But it's still not the model who makes the attacks. It's a pendant which activates, when the model is wounded.
It's the same with other items, which causes wounds. They don't benefit from special rules the bearer happens to have, either.
The AP the runelord/smiths give, is just there to insure you always have AP no matter what weapon you use.

#17 The Grim Delver

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 04:01 PM

The model have AP, yes, and it's on the model, yes. But it's still not the model who makes the attacks. It's a pendant which activates, when the model is wounded.
It's the same with other items, which causes wounds. They don't benefit from special rules the bearer happens to have, either.
The AP the runelord/smiths give, is just there to insure you always have AP no matter what weapon you use.

I would probably have to agree with you. I´ve been trying to come up with a similar power/magic item combo, like the orc choppa rule with something or a vamp lord with helm of discord and aura of dark majesty but there is nothing really, to my knowledge, like the rune of spite or runes in general.I guess it comes down to the way it´s worded. Whether any magic items the runesmith has counts as part of that model when causing wounds or if it´s just the item that causes wounds.

For the record, I probably would have a negative view if an orc player had something similar and wanted to use the choppa rule with it.

And I also realise that due to our rubbish anvil, this might not get used very often but would be handy on a lord with shieldbearers and a rune of iron provided, of course, he benefited from it.



#18 kgkid

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 06:29 PM

I would disagree, and say that it benefits from Forgefire.

 

The perquisites for AP to work is for the Model to be in CC.

 

The talisman, or pendant as someone named it, is a part of the model, so the model is the point of origin of the hit.

It only works in CC, so it is in effect an automatic CC hit originating from the model.

It means that the hit uses the AP. It also means that parry save would work against it, as well as any other special rules or items that have impact on CC attacks. 

 

JMHO



#19 Zidane_blade

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 07:07 PM

After giving it some thought, the last couple of days, I'm actually inclined to turn it around, and agree that the attacks from the spite rune, benefits from armour piercing.
In the same manner, as, for example, the razor standard gives armour piercing to impact hits.

#20 Balric Fireforged

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 07:59 PM

I believe that if a Thane had a RoCleaving and a RoSpite, his RoSpite would not have AP.

I believe that a Runesmith with RoSpite would have AP.

I believe that a Thane with RoSpite in a unit that had a Runesmith would have AP.

If you get your AP from your weapon, it applies only to your weapon... if you have AP inherently (as a Runesmith and forgefire have) it applies to all of your close combat attacks.

Now wait for it... AP Fiery Ring of Thori.
(YOUR-HEAD-A-SPLODE!)





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