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Ambush/scouts/vanguard Spam - Overboard Or Awesome?

miners rangers strollaz

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#41 Zidane_blade

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Posted 15 October 2014 - 12:56 PM

Don't think any further points, spend away from the attacking units, is a good idea.
The Quarrellers should be able to pose a thread to chaff/flanking units. In addition, an ambushing army is most likely going to attack one flank, or an isolated area. So any units on the opposite flank, would be too far away to do good.

One COULD argue....wether it's necessary to have two Runesmiths. They'll be in the same unit anyway, and some enemy spells will most likely be wasted, because you're already in combat.

#42 thesustainablecenter

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Posted 15 October 2014 - 01:32 PM

 

I haven't tried it myself, so I can't really offer advice on running a list.  But I can point you at some good reading material.

One of my favourite examples of Strollaz in action can be found in SubTwo's list (he has some battle reports from a tourney he went to, also).

In a nutshell, it's:

  • A block of Longbeards get Strollaz and fills out your core points
  • A block of Hammerers gets Strollaz and another rune to satisfy Rule of Pride, e.g. Slowness
  • Grungni and Strollaz on the BSB, to give Strollaz to one more unit of your choice
  • As many Gyrocopters with Vanguard as you can take
  • Plus a couple of 5-Ranger units to help guard your Vanguard moves

 

 

I plan on doing this for the lol's after sylvannia, I have 5 gyro's, I want a 6th and 2 bombers to fill out the max air force!



#43 Grimgi Ironside

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Posted 15 October 2014 - 02:32 PM

 

 

I haven't tried it myself, so I can't really offer advice on running a list.  But I can point you at some good reading material.

One of my favourite examples of Strollaz in action can be found in SubTwo's list (he has some battle reports from a tourney he went to, also).

In a nutshell, it's:

  • A block of Longbeards get Strollaz and fills out your core points
  • A block of Hammerers gets Strollaz and another rune to satisfy Rule of Pride, e.g. Slowness
  • Grungni and Strollaz on the BSB, to give Strollaz to one more unit of your choice
  • As many Gyrocopters with Vanguard as you can take
  • Plus a couple of 5-Ranger units to help guard your Vanguard moves

 

 

I plan on doing this for the lol's after sylvannia, I have 5 gyro's, I want a 6th and 2 bombers to fill out the max air force!

 

So between all the Vanguard/Fly/Ambush/Scouts, we have the closest thing to a Dwarf army pretending to be Wood Elves :P



#44 Aarresaari

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Posted 15 October 2014 - 02:48 PM

Don't think any further points, spend away from the attacking units, is a good idea.
The Quarrellers should be able to pose a thread to chaff/flanking units. In addition, an ambushing army is most likely going to attack one flank, or an isolated area. So any units on the opposite flank, would be too far away to do good.

One COULD argue....wether it's necessary to have two Runesmiths. They'll be in the same unit anyway, and some enemy spells will most likely be wasted, because you're already in combat.

 

I agree. My shieldbeards are already too small due to quarrellers stealing their points and there's no making them smaller. I can sacrifice a gyro for a cannon, but nothing else.

 

And the second runesmith is still a mystery. Starting within the same unit makes their bonuses less usefull, but that second spellbreaker is really, really needed. With the new 50% lords rule I'm sure there'll be enough lists with twin level 4s. And they can jump into other units too after the action has started.

 

On the other side, dropping Smith would free points for a copter and some other stuff.
 



#45 Grungimusic

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Posted 15 October 2014 - 07:00 PM

This is from the official FAQ for the current WHFB rulebook:

 

Q: If a character is deployed as part of a unit with the Vanguard

special rule, can that unit still make its Vanguard move? (p79).

A: If the character in question has the Vanguard special rule

as well, then yes, they may. Otherwise, no, the character’s

presence prevents the unit from using Vanguard.

 

If a character is deployed with a unit that has strollaz on its banner, does that mean the vanguard can't be taken?


Edited by Grungimusic, 15 October 2014 - 07:01 PM.


#46 Zidane_blade

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Posted 15 October 2014 - 08:17 PM

You are correct, to a degree. But strollaz works bit different, as it gives vanguard to the unit, and therefor every model.
The faq in question answers to, for instance, if you put a DE hero on a cold one, in a unit of dark riders. The dark riders normally have vanguard, but can't since the cold one doesnt.

#47 Swordthain

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Posted 15 October 2014 - 08:21 PM

It would be possible to drop a Runesmith, I suppose. It's dangerous, because I have had games where I've used both Spellbreakers in the first round of the game! But then I've had games where I didn't use even a single Spellbreaker. I haven't tried it yet, but it might work to take a Runelord, Thane BSB, and a cheap Thane or two to add some punch to the Longbeards, maybe one with an Oathstone...

#48 Aarresaari

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 01:20 PM

It would be possible to drop a Runesmith, I suppose. It's dangerous, because I have had games where I've used both Spellbreakers in the first round of the game! But then I've had games where I didn't use even a single Spellbreaker. I haven't tried it yet, but it might work to take a Runelord, Thane BSB, and a cheap Thane or two to add some punch to the Longbeards, maybe one with an Oathstone...

 

Yeah, losing the second spellbreaker will sometimes hurt like hell. I think it sometimes may be the most important thing there is for a 3-block assault army. But it's also quite situational, like you said, and may not be worth anything in some games, whereas an extra gyro is always needed. It's a tough call. And I have to send my list to the TOs even before next practice match. But I think i'll post it into barracks next time so that I don't derail this topic into my own stuff.



#49 Swordthain

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 01:29 PM

Posting it in the Barracks is always a good idea. Lots of people to review your list there with a lot of good thoughts. Posting it here doesn't really derail the topic, though, I think. I'd actually imagine posting our respective lists and how we've seen those lists perform should really benefit this topic! I'm sure Theatralic appreciates your consideration, though. :thumbup:

 

Unfortunately, it looks like I won't be taking my ambush army to the tournament. I am torn, because while I see it really taking a lot of folks by surprise and therefore performing well, I would basically have to give up any soft scores for the GT. I just won't be able to get my bearded lads painted in time. I'm working with a more conventional list right now that comprises only about 30 miniatures that need to be painted before next month, which I feel is doable. If something comes up to keep me from being able to finish painting the minis I need to paint, I'll go ahead and take my ambush army. I'll just have to wait and see.



#50 Grimgi Ironside

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 02:57 PM

I never thought I'd actually be hoping for someone not to finish painting some minis :P 

GT priorities needs to come first, but there will be a part of me hoping your Ambushers get to make an appearence.



#51 Swordthain

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 07:36 PM

Haha! I have to admit, there's part of me that hopes so, too!







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