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First 2500 Point List

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#1 LincLinc99

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 11:09 PM

I just finished throwing together a 2500 point list and I was wondering how it looked.  The main idea is to tear apart my enemy with ranged and have a strong melee force when confronted in combat.  The Ironbreakers will be able to soak up damage and the Hammerers will be able to dish it out.

 

 

  • Lords & Heroes (505pts)
  •  
  • Belegar Ironhammer (305pts)
  •  
  • Runesmith (110pts) Rune of Spellbreaking 1 and 2, Rune of Stone
  •  
  • Runesmith (90) Rune of Spellbreaking 1, Rune of Stone (Just a little side note, does it violate the Rule of Pride when I have the Rune of Spellbreaking 1 and 2 on one model and just the Rune of Spellbreaking 1 on another?) 

 

  • Core (630pts)
  • (238pts)
  • 19x Quarrellers, Musician (The bigger Runesmith goes in this group, 2 rows, 9+Runesmith (10), 10)
  • (226pts)
  • 18x Quarrellers, Musician (the smaller Runesmith goes in this group, 2 rows, 9+Runesmith (10), 9)
  • (156pts)
  • 12x Thunderers, Shields (2 rows 6,6)

 

 

  • Special (765)
  • (145pts)
  • Cannon, Rune of Forging
  • (380pts)
  • 25x Hammerers, F.C (3 rows, 10,10,5, Belegar will either go here or in the Ironbreakers)
  • (240pts)
  • 15 Ironbreakers, F.C (3 rows of 5,5,5 Belegar will either go here or in the Hammerers)

 

  • Rare (600pts)
  • (280pts)
  • 12x Irondrakes, F.C, Trollhammer Torpedo, Rune of Slowness 1 and 2 (2 rows 6,6)
  • (170pts)
  • Organ Gun, Rune of Accuracy, Rune of Forging
  • (150pts)
  • Organ Gun, Rune of Forging, Rune of Burning

 

So is this poorly planned?  Or do you think it has potential?  If it's bad, why? Thanks!



#2 Lord Alisk

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 11:52 AM

Hello there. Just a few points off the top of my head:

 

- The combination of runes on your runesmiths is legal, so nothing to worry about there.

 

- purring a runesmith into the iron breakers might be a good call - granting them armour piercing attacks really improves their damage output.

 

- I'd look into getting an army standard bearer. They're absolutely worth their weight in gold (or gromril...) - even with LD9, we rail 1/6 of our LD checks - the BSB is really valuable for keeping our units fighting.

 

- Unless you really like the model, or want him for narrative reasons, I wouldn't take King Belegar. Like all the dwarf lord choices, he's really expensive for what he does, and unlike the normal dwarf lord, he isn't all that tanky (a king on shield bearers has a valuable role in taking on super tough characters, but Belegar isn't all that good at that either). For the price he is, you could get around 20 hammerers, which will scare the enemy much more. In terms of damage output, he's really not that great.

 

- As you've got a lot of artillery, you might like to look into getting a master engineer. He can really help them out, especially the organ guns.

 

- I'd give your quarrellers either great weapons or shields. Either is a valid choice, but it greatly improves their versatility. I'd probably give them shields, but that might just be me.

 

- I'd try and put the Groth 1 Eye banner on your hammerers. This will make most of your army stubborn, and so very difficult to shift indeed. It's an absolutely wonderful rune!

 

- I'd try and fit in some gyrocopters. They're really handy, and a bargain for the points. They're the only thing we have with much mobility, and so are well worth taking. Also, their damage potential is pretty significant.

 

- I think the unit of iron breakers is a bit small, personally. I'd suggest trying to make them bigger, or dropping them entirely and getting more hammerers/core models. If you give your Xbows shields, they become fairly resilient themselves, so the ironbreakers become a bit less useful, whilst the hammerers become more so, as you need at least one unit with serious damage potential. However, 15 ironbreakers, especially if they're stubborn, definitely have their uses, so it is just something to think about.

 

- I might be inclined to drop one organ gun, and get more iron drakes. The iron drakes are less dangerous point for point for shooting, but are much more flexible and much less vulnerable. I personally really like iron drakes. The use of the slowness runes on their banner is a very good idea - I like that a lot! However, as you're splashing out on the banner, you might as well make the unit a bigger one. I often use a unit of 20 iron drakes with 2 runes of slowness, and they always do very well indeed. They're numerous enough to soak up some damage, and can be a real threat on the countercharge. 

 

 

 

Basically, I think this army could do with a few tweaks, but relatively minor ones. If it were me, I'd drop Belgar, and replace him with a BSB (probably with the Grungni rune, and any other runes to suit your personal choices), a gyrocopter, and then the odd extra model here or there.

 

I might be inclined to say your units are a bit small; I might be inclined to scrap the thunderers, and use the points to increase the size of both units of Xbows. However, I like big units, and smaller ones might suit you better.

 

It's just some assorted thoughts, but I do hope that they're helpful! 



#3 Saltrock

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 12:04 PM

Belegar is okay, but is far from the optimal choice as general, for start he is a Dwarf Lord and they don't bring an awful lot to an army unless they are tooled up for specific instances like a challenge buff to take enemy combat characters out of hitting you units. Most people are running a Rune Smith as General these days as there isn't a massive improvement going up to a Rune Lord either. However, If its a lord you want, you can make more useful cheaper Dwarf Lords than Belegar.

 

Pretty sure you can only have one rune of stone per character. I'm sure it says multiples have no further effect. However I don't think it is effected by the Rule of Pride, meaning you can take it by itself on multiple characters.

Rune of Spell Breaking, you can combine with other runes from the same section (I think is talisman), so you could each have the basic Ro Spell Breaking as long as at least one of them is combined with a different rune from that section. Alternatively you can have the single rune on one guy, and take 2 on the second guy for the more powerful version, which counts does not interfere with the Rule of Pride.

 

You can give your Rune Smiths:

RS1) 1x Rune of Stone + 2x Ro Spell Breaking

RS2) 1x Ro Stone + 1x Ro Spell Breaking

 

For your core, I would probably remove the Thunderers to make points to take increase unit size of the Quarrellers, take full command (champions only really if you want them to accept challenges on behalf of characters), and give the units great weapons.

 

Hammerers I would like to see about 30 strong, however I wouldn't run them 10 long as you only get 1 extra attack from supporting ranks anyway. So going horde formation for 5 attacks that will probably be dead from ranged casualties before you get into combat isn't worth it. At most I would run 7 wide, so you get more combat res from ranks. Yes its not as many as you would get extra attacks, but at 10 wide, unless you come up against another horde, you can imagine that anywhere from 4 to 8 guys wont be in contact to attack anyway (including supporting attackers).

 

Hammerers are expensive, Iron Breakers are expensive, Iron drakes are very expensive. Basically what I'm saying is you have expensive units which prevents you from investing enough points in any of them to make them worth while taking. 15 Iron breakers isn't enough, you need at least 20 to make any kind of go of it. The Iron drakes have just so make points invested in them for little pay back.

 

15 Iron breakers don't have the staying power regardless of good there armour save is. loose 1 and your down to 1 rank bonus and a banner. against anything that can chop through most of your armour they will go down too quickly.

 

The Iron Drakes I would look at going one of 2 ways. You either take a small naked unit with no upgrades except a musician to guard flanks of your infantry and move up with them, or you got for a unit 20+ strong and only then look at giving them command and runic banners. I personally just for fun am looking at running Burlock with them, so I get a reroll on misses from my unit of 20. If your only BS3, and you move, and are long range, your hitting on 6s. you can expect 2 rounds of hitting on 6s. Maybe 1 round of hitting at 5s and if you get lucky with failed charges 1 round of hitting at 4s. Just do a couple of rolls for the units and see what works for you.



#4 Lord Alisk

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 12:18 PM

 

 

If your only BS3, and you move, and are long range, your hitting on 6s. you can expect 2 rounds of hitting on 6s. Maybe 1 round of hitting at 5s and if you get lucky with failed charges 1 round of hitting at 4s. Just do a couple of rolls for the units and see what works for you.

 

I'd agree with pretty much everything you've said, Saltrock - but iron drakes are quick to fire, and have dwarf crafted, so never take -1 to hit for moving, nor do they take -1 to hit for stand and shoot. Unless they're shooting into cover, they're never worse than 5+ to hit (i.e. -1 to hit for long range).



#5 Saltrock

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 01:57 PM

I'm pretty sure they take it for moving, don't they? just not stand and shoot, which is where they excel.

 

Problem is, unless someone charges something small enough to get wiped out, or take and fail a panic test through wounds, you end up in combat, where although not too shabby, Irondrakes loose there best feature.



#6 Grey Seer Kwokka

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 03:03 PM

I'm pretty sure they take it for moving, don't they? just not stand and shoot, which is where they excel.

Problem is, unless someone charges something small enough to get wiped out, or take and fail a panic test through wounds, you end up in combat, where although not too shabby, Irondrakes loose there best feature.


As Lord Alisk wrote, Irondrake drake guns are Quick to Fire so they do not suffer a movement penalty for shooting. The Trollhammer Torpedo upgrade does lack this though.

#7 Saltrock

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 05:52 PM

Of course. I forgot the benefit came from quick to fire. I was thinking it came from master crafted.

 

Well they are certainly better than I thought, and means I can consider just using a normal engineer for my organ guns, instead of Burlock on my irondrakes. But still, I would go bigger with command and banners, or smaller with few to no upgrades.







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