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Comparing Longbeards W/ Shields To Ironbreakers

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#41 TaxiForBiggins

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 02:46 AM

Gary Luther, one of the other Dawi players that does well, also runs hammerers (with Groth). Then again, he reckons he usually runs WMs un-runed, so YMMV



#42 thesustainablecenter

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 01:02 PM

 

I think I'll take the challenge and for the crossroads spring gt, or if I go to one earlier, I'll do just ironbreakers and see how it goes. Unless my play testing beforehand proves them inadequate of course.


The Ironbreaker Challenge! Sounds like something Adam Richman would try on Man vs Food. Ironbreakers definitely do have a place in a competitive GT army, they would just require finesse and good placement to brick up the worst of the threats and grind them down.

 

Or I could just take 40 of them and point denail. But I'm probably going to build the list with current ETC comp in mind of 450 max for the unit so will have to make it work. 



#43 kelvenmore

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 07:24 PM

Hi Tony,
Great job on your YouTube channel.

One thing I've come to realize with the new book is it each unit has values and merits against certain armies.

Warriors with great weapons and slayers are excellent against monsterous infantry armies.
Iron breakers and long beards with shields are excellent against elves. In fact the only time I take hammers against elves is when I want to take the master rune of grungi to help protect my war machines. The side benefit is that my hammers are also protected.

In tournament play I tend to take long beards with great weapons and hammers. While long beards with great weapons cost as much as hammers, long beards provide several advantages over hammers. 1 they are immune to psychology so no panic test or fear check. 2 they are core, 3. Old grumblers. I almost always put in the rune of stoicism which make them stubborn as well. The last advantage is more subtle people fear Hammers and avoid them or concentrate all attacks on them which is why I put the master rube if grungi on them. Opponents also tend to ignore Longbeards because they fail to realize that Longbeards hit just as hard as Hammers.

The age of static res is over as well a striking first when charging. With our low initiative we always strike last, save Orges, Dwarves and Lizardmen. This makes winning h2h all the more important and GW the edge for me.

#44 Bimli

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 08:01 PM

Hi Tony,
Great job on your YouTube channel.

One thing I've come to realize with the new book is it each unit has values and merits against certain armies.

Warriors with great weapons and slayers are excellent against monsterous infantry armies.
Iron breakers and long beards with shields are excellent against elves. In fact the only time I take hammers against elves is when I want to take the master rune of grungi to help protect my war machines. The side benefit is that my hammers are also protected.

In tournament play I tend to take long beards with great weapons and hammers. While long beards with great weapons cost as much as hammers, long beards provide several advantages over hammers. 1 they are immune to psychology so no panic test or fear check. 2 they are core, 3. Old grumblers. I almost always put in the rune of stoicism which make them stubborn as well. The last advantage is more subtle people fear Hammers and avoid them or concentrate all attacks on them which is why I put the master rube if grungi on them. Opponents also tend to ignore Longbeards because they fail to realize that Longbeards hit just as hard as Hammers.

The age of static res is over as well a striking first when charging. With our low initiative we always strike last, save Orges, Dwarves and Lizardmen. This makes winning h2h all the more important and GW the edge for me.

 

sorry when you say you put grungi on the Hammerers you mean you put the bsb in the hammerer unit right? cause only the bsb can take grungi



#45 kelvenmore

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 08:29 PM

sorry when you say you put grungi on the Hammerers you mean you put the bsb in the hammerer unit right? cause only the bsb can take grungi

Nope, I'm quite embarrassed somehow I missed that rule. Thank you Bimli this is the kindest way I've been called an idiot :)

Edited by kelvenmore, 07 October 2014 - 08:31 PM.


#46 Grumpy Runelord

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 09:23 PM

Plus our forum is by far the friendliest. We have debates on builds and strategy, some of the others just trash talk each other.

This?



#47 McCrae

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 03:23 AM

I am seriously considering running Ironbreakers for the NZ masters, plenty of DE's over this way.. I may yet take up the Ironbreaker challenge. 



#48 thesustainablecenter

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 03:39 AM

I am seriously considering running Ironbreakers for the NZ masters, plenty of DE's over this way.. I may yet take up the Ironbreaker challenge.


I ran them tonight with a dwarf lord on shield bearers built defensively. I got dual charged by hammerer's and GW warriors each with runesmith and we basically traded equal wounds. My lord however gave me the Killy edge that ironbreakers lack, felling 7 hammerer's over 2 rounds of combat. A flank charge by my longboards with GW sealed victory. In the end I think IB's against a unit like hammerer's with a runesmith is a losing proposition for the IB's. However an anvil should never break a hammer. Hence by adding in The Lord to that unit and holding until relieved by my own hammer proved to be the better strategy.

Also I fired a grudgethrower with standard runes at a 40 man horde of hammerer's bottom turn 1 and landed dead on, killed like 15 guys. If that hit IB's I'd except half as many would have died. That's also a factor to consider as everyone will shoot the big horde of hammerer's but may ignore the weaker IB's or if they do get shot at, will lose far fewer.

#49 Rayn Oathforge

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 02:59 PM

Also a horde of hammerers with great weapons is one of the killiest units in the game. The fact they were able to survive makes them that much better. You won't be facing too many more strength 6 ap two attack WS 5 infanty.

#50 Stymie Jackson

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 04:36 PM


I ran them tonight with a dwarf lord on shield bearers built defensively.

 

That's a good way to run the IB. An alternate would be to use a Tanked BSB with GW in the unit...a bit less offense but then the Lords points could go to that 20ish 'detachment' of hammerers that have been talked about to flank.

 

But then again it's still a great excuse to run a dwarf Lord.
 



#51 TaxiForBiggins

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 02:43 AM

Also a horde of hammerers with great weapons is one of the killiest units in the game. The fact they were able to survive makes them that much better. You won't be facing too many more strength 6 ap two attack WS 5 infanty.

 

And heavy armour, to boot! The only thing we're missing is a ward save (in CC)



#52 Grimgi Ironside

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 01:54 PM

 

I am seriously considering running Ironbreakers for the NZ masters, plenty of DE's over this way.. I may yet take up the Ironbreaker challenge.


I ran them tonight with a dwarf lord on shield bearers built defensively. I got dual charged by hammerer's and GW warriors each with runesmith and we basically traded equal wounds. My lord however gave me the Killy edge that ironbreakers lack, felling 7 hammerer's over 2 rounds of combat. A flank charge by my longboards with GW sealed victory. In the end I think IB's against a unit like hammerer's with a runesmith is a losing proposition for the IB's. However an anvil should never break a hammer. Hence by adding in The Lord to that unit and holding until relieved by my own hammer proved to be the better strategy.

Also I fired a grudgethrower with standard runes at a 40 man horde of hammerer's bottom turn 1 and landed dead on, killed like 15 guys. If that hit IB's I'd except half as many would have died. That's also a factor to consider as everyone will shoot the big horde of hammerer's but may ignore the weaker IB's or if they do get shot at, will lose far fewer.

 

It would be sinking more points into the IB unit, but with the your Lord shield surfing, you could push a Runesmith of your own into the second rank to give your IB's AP and help them grind it out better.

I want to really like IBs, I like the idea of walking, stout, Dwarf-tanks just pushing an enemy and beating them through simply not dying.  I honestly like their concept/fluff more than Hammerers, but I feel scared about making a financial comitment to purchasing the models and then things don't work out.



#53 thesustainablecenter

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 02:56 PM

 

 

I am seriously considering running Ironbreakers for the NZ masters, plenty of DE's over this way.. I may yet take up the Ironbreaker challenge.


I ran them tonight with a dwarf lord on shield bearers built defensively. I got dual charged by hammerer's and GW warriors each with runesmith and we basically traded equal wounds. My lord however gave me the Killy edge that ironbreakers lack, felling 7 hammerer's over 2 rounds of combat. A flank charge by my longboards with GW sealed victory. In the end I think IB's against a unit like hammerer's with a runesmith is a losing proposition for the IB's. However an anvil should never break a hammer. Hence by adding in The Lord to that unit and holding until relieved by my own hammer proved to be the better strategy.

Also I fired a grudgethrower with standard runes at a 40 man horde of hammerer's bottom turn 1 and landed dead on, killed like 15 guys. If that hit IB's I'd except half as many would have died. That's also a factor to consider as everyone will shoot the big horde of hammerer's but may ignore the weaker IB's or if they do get shot at, will lose far fewer.

 

It would be sinking more points into the IB unit, but with the your Lord shield surfing, you could push a Runesmith of your own into the second rank to give your IB's AP and help them grind it out better.

I want to really like IBs, I like the idea of walking, stout, Dwarf-tanks just pushing an enemy and beating them through simply not dying.  I honestly like their concept/fluff more than Hammerers, but I feel scared about making a financial comitment to purchasing the models and then things don't work out.

 

 

They did have a runesmith in the unit. Wouldn't take IB's without them. 



#54 Rippys

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 07:49 PM

I'm an ironbreaker over hammerers general for the record. Recently I've been running IBs and Shieldbeards due to the shooty elf lists I've been facing and I have to say I've been a little underwhelmed by the shieldbeards. The 1 less armour save and parry save (from round 2) is a huge difference and whilst I love the old grumblers rule and think the models are the best available I'm seriously tempted to drop them for my usual greatwarriors or to kit them out with great weapons themselves.

 

I probably set my expectations too high but I won't be dropping IBs for shieldbeards anytime soon.



#55 Pellegrim

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 05:14 AM

Did you see that recentndwarf-ogres battle on YT? I'm pretty sure a large ranked, unit of shield warriors whiped a unit of ironfistst. By charging, rune-smith, bsb and rank bonussus. Just saying ;)

#56 Rippys

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 06:20 AM

Did you see that recentndwarf-ogres battle on YT? I'm pretty sure a large ranked, unit of shield warriors whiped a unit of ironfistst. By charging, rune-smith, bsb and rank bonussus. Just saying ;)


In my last game against ogres my great Warriors did exactly the same thing in the first round of combat at less cost than shield beards!





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