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2500 Points Swordthain's Ambushers Vs. Dark Elves

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#1 Swordthain

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 08:18 PM

Kentucky has the opportunity to be on the GT circuit this year! I will probably be unable to attend, unfortunately, but I did make up a force in the event my plans change! One can hope... Anyway, I met up with another local player for a practice game.

 

The Dwarfs

 

Joseph Bugman

Thane: BSB, Shield, MRoGrungni, Strollaz' Rune

Runesmith: Shield, RoStone, Fiery Ring of Thori, RoSpellbreaking, RotFurnace

Runesmith: Shield, RoStone, RoSpellbreaking

Longbeards: x44, Shields, FC, RoStoicism

Miners: x42, FC, Steamdrill

Gyrocopter: Vanguard

Gyrocopter

Bugman's Rangers: x35, FC.

 

The Dark Elves

 

Supreme Sorceress: lore of dark magic: Level 4, Dark pegasus, Cloak of twilight, Dispel scroll, Obsidian trinket
Death Hag: Bsb, Cry of war, Cauldron of blood
Khanite Assassin: Dark venom, Sword of anti heroes, The other trickster's shard
Witch Elves: x28, Full command, Banner of eternal flame
Dark Riders: x5, Repeaters, Shields
Dark Riders: x5, Repeaters, Shields
Dark Riders: x5, Repeaters, Shields
Executioners: x30, Full command, Banner of swiftness
Reaper Bolt Thrower
Reaper Bolt Thrower
Shades: x5, Great weapons
Cold One Chariot
Cold One Chariot
Doomfire Warlocks: x5
 
I wanted to give my opponent the opportunity to really test his force, so I asked him which scenario he thought posed the greatest challenge to his games. He replied that he thought Dawn Attack probably posed the most challenge, due to the constrained deployment it usually produces. Dawn Attack poses some serious challenges for a lot of armies, especially for low-leadership armies when the general is deployed away from important elements of the force. We decided to use Dawn Attack, then, and I won the roll for table half and deployed my Longbeards (along with accompanying Thane BSB and Runesmiths) and Gyrocopters--all were able to deploy either in the middle or anywhere I wanted, so I deployed them all centrally. This allowed my opponent to deploy second, which actually did give him a little of an advantage, since he could position his units to some degree in response to the position of mine. I would have prefered to deploy second and to take the second turn so that I could have positioned my units to take advantage of vulnerabilities in his deployment, but no such luck. I then proceeded to lose the roll-off for both scouts and vanguards, so I didn't get my units quite where I would have prefered them to be, but still, it was far from atrocious, so I considered myself fortunate. Then, finally, in a stroke of peculiar luck, my opponent rolled a 6 to steal the initiative and take the first turn... Oh, well.
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Dark Elf Turn One: My opponent declared no charges. I half expected him to charge my Gyrocopter or Rangers with his Executioners, but he decided against it. That was alright by me, since I wanted to get that unit cut down to size a bit before engaging it in close combat. He moved a lot of his chaff around to get into position, mostly just redeploying his army, really, to compensate for his initial deployment. He rolled a low number for the Winds of Magic. I let Doombolt through, which did nothing to my rightmost Gyrocopter, and then I was able to dispel Arnzipal's Black Horror with my dispel dice. Shooting killed a single Ranger and three Longbeards, I believe. His Shades also put a single wound on my rightmost Gyrocopter.
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Dwarf Turn One: I didn't have much to do. I charged the nearest Bolt Thrower with my leftmost Gyrocopter, moving the other Gyrocopter over to steam the Shades. My Longbeards moved forward, but I kept my Rangers right where they were so that they could shoot. Three Shades died to a Steam Gun, but they passed their panic check. The Rangers let their quarrels fly, felling 10 Executioners! I figured that would make that unit more than manageable. In combat, my Gyrocopter did a single wound, winning combat and catching the crew before they could make their escape. So far, so good.

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DE2: My opponent declared only a single charge: his Executioners against my Longbeards. I was anticipating this. The Longbeards would potentially lose combat, but they would be Stubborn on Leadership 10, so I was willing to take that risk. Bugman's Rangers could then come into the flank of the Executioners on my turn and finish off the unit. That would net me a lot of points, and I would just have to keep concentrating on systematically destroying the Dark Elf chaff. I had no intentions of taking on the Witch Elves. I've seen what they can do, and while I think my Longbeards and Rangers could handle the horde, I wasn't confident that they would still be able to do so after wading through all the other Dark Elf units... The rest of the enemy army basically shifted around in order to get into better positions or stayed still in order to shoot. The Dark Elf magic phase went much as their first one. I think it was my 6 dispel dice to my opponent's 8 power dice. He started with Arnzipal's Black Horror shot at my Gyrocopter. I used all my dice to stop it, resigning myself to having to burn a RoSpellbreaking to stop his next spell. The next spell was Soulblight. I was not interested in losing any more Longbeards in their fight with the Executioners than I had to, so I used a RoSpellbreaking to stop it. Thinking back on it, I probably should have let that one go, though, and saved my RoSpellbreaking for something scarier. The Executioners were already going to be wounding my Longbeards on 2+, and I was already anticipating losing combat, so the -1 to Strength wasn't really that big of a deal... Live and hopefully learn, I guess. Shooting was almost useless. I lost just a couple of Rangers. I might mention at this point that my opponent shot my leftmost Gyrocopter with a single-shot from his remaining Bolt Thrower. It missed. Remember that, because it's important later on. During combat, the Executioners killed a handful of Longbeards and lost about as many of their number in return from the Longbeards' retaliation. But what I hadn't anticipated was a Khanite Assassin with the Blade of Antiheroes! With three characters in my unit, he easily slaughtered my BSB. That made my Stubborn break test a little unnerving, but the Longbeards passed the test with ease all the same!

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D2: I started by declaring a charge with my Rangers into the flank of the Executioners. Fortunately, I didn't roll horribly and was able to get them into combat. I then moved my Gyrocopters around to get good shots on my opponent's units of Dark Riders. Finally, my Miners came on!

 

I had two options for their deployment as primary considerations. The first was to deploy the Miners behind the Bolt Thrower on my far left flank and take it out. The problem with that plan was that my Miners would have a hard time providing any further contribution to the battle, basically leaving my other units to face off against the other 2400 points of my opponent's force with only 2000 points of Dwarfs. I didn't like that idea, though truthfully it would have been the safe decision. I was confident that I could kill my opponent's chaff while keeping my Longbeards and Rangers away from the Witch Elves, which I had no intentions of engaging. Evidently, I am an adrenaline junkie--really, after two tours of combat in Iraq, I think I might actually be one--so I guess I needed more thrill and hazard in my life. The other place I considered deploying my Miners was directly behind the Witch Elves... (I really should have been treating the game with a little more seriousness, since it was a tournament practice game, after all.) As I was placing my Miners on the table, I was thinking to myself, "This is a bad idea. Who came up with this idea? I am going to lose this unit for no good reason. I'm okay with that? Yes, I'm okay with that. Can I really throw away 455 points of my army? Yes, yes I can. I'll enjoy the rush... Maybe I should get into skydiving instead. Yeah, probably." The string of thought continues from there, basically expanding further on those impressions, but you get the idea. But just so everyone knows what you should not do if you're ever in this situation, DO NOT DEPLOY YOUR HORDE OF MINERS UNSUPPORTED BEHIND THE HUGE UNIT OF WITCH ELVES WITH ACCOMPANYING CAULDRON OF BLOOD!!!

Shooting was encouraging. Each Gyrocopter rolled well, killing 4 of the five models in each of their respective target units. The Dark Riders on my far right failed its panic check and fled. It would need double 1s to rally now, so I figured it should run right off the board on its own. The Assassin issued a challenge, which in proper Dwarf fashion I refused! I know. It doesn't make any sense. I think deploying the Miners got the need for speed out of my system, if you know what I mean. My opponent sent my general, Joseph Bugman, to the back of the unit of Rangers. The Assassin then proceeded to kill 6 Rangers! Not surprising, I guess, considering 6 ASF S7 Attacks... The Executioners killed a few Longbeards. In return, my Rangers killed the Assassin and several Executioners, and the Longbeards killed the rest of the Executioners down to the champion and standard bearer. I won combat by enough to force my opponent to roll his break test on double 1s, which he failed. I pursued the remaining model, catching it and moving up several inches with my Longbeards. My Rangers opted to reform as you can see below.

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DE3: With the Executioners gone and a lot of his chaff getting shot up, my opponent was anxious to get his Witch Elves into the fray. However, my Miners would make an easy before-supper snack. No charges were declared, so he started moving his units around in order to either attempt to redirect my units or to set up countermeasures. The Witch Elves, of course, were the one exception, since they just turned about to eat the Miners. The Winds of Magic were again unfavorable to the Dark Elves, leaving them with 4 dice to my 3--again. The only spell attempted was Doombolt, the big version, against one of my Gyrocopters. It failed to cast, thankfully. My opponent's shooting this turn is only worth mentioning because it was hardly worth mentioning.

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D3: I of course just charged the remaining Dark Rider with my Longbeards. I hoped they would be able to make short work of him and overrun into my opponent's Supreme Sorceress. I really struggled with what to do with my Miners. I finally came to the conclusion that they had the best chance of doing something useful if they were to charge the Witch Elves rather than the Witch Elves being able to charge them. So, my Miners charged the Witch Elves. I measured the distance, and after a swift reform, the front rank of my Rangers was within range to use their throwing axes against the unit of Dark Riders that had moved up just a little too close behind them. I don't think my opponent honestly had any idea my Rangers had throwing axes. I was excited to actually use them for once! I moved both of my Gyrocopters so that they were hidden from my opponent's chaff but would be in range to be able to move and shoot the Witch Elves on my following turn. They dropped bombs, one on a chariot--which did nothing--and the other on the Warlocks, which killed 3, I think.My Rangers killed 4 of the 5 Dark Riders, who panicked and ran. Now they, too, would need double 1s to rally. *grin* My Longbeards then proceeded to slaughter the Dark Rider model and overran 11 inches--they only needed 6, I think, in order to get to the Supreme Sorceress! The Miners did well. They lost 18 before they got to strike, which was actually less than I anticipated. With their return attacks, they killed 6 Witch Elves and left the Cauldron of Blood on a single remaining wound! Of course, they lost combat very badly and ran. The Witch Elves pursued but failed to catch them. I was actually happy, even though I knew without a doubt I would lose the Miners. It would mean that the Witch Elves would be forced to charge the Miners on my opponent's following turn, and they would likely pursue off the table, which would mean that it would be the Dark Elves' Turn 6 before the Witch Elves could declare a charge.

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DE4: The Witch Elves charged my Miners, who fled off the table. The Witch Elves pursued, taking them off the table, too. Both of the Cold One Chariots charged into my Longbeards. My opponent moved his Warlocks around to face my Gyrocopters. Meanwhile, my opponent rallied the fleeing Dark Rider from the unit that my rightmost Gyrocopter had steamed on my Turn 2. My opponent finally pulled out a decent magic phase with 9 or 10 dice to my 8 dispel dice (I just happened to roll 2 channels!). My opponent's first spell was a regular-power version of Word of Pain. I figured, worst-case scenario, my Longbeards would be WS2, which was a bit worrisome for me. Thinking back on it, I should have just let it go, because my Longbeards wouldn't be castrated by it. Instead, I decided to split my dice. 4 went into attempting a dispel, which I failed! Of course, my opponent rolled high, reducing the Longbeards' WS to 2... The second spell was another casting of Soulblight. I knew I couldn't let this one go through. My opponent rolled high, though he didn't roll Irresistible Force. I had to use my remaining RoSpellbreaking on it. Finally, my opponent again rolled high, though this time on an empowered version of Doombolt against my injured Gyrocopter. I rolled pitifully low on my dispel attempt--I could only have stopped it with an Irresistible Dispel, anyway. The Gyrocopter died horribly. The Bolt Thrower fired a single shot at the flank of my Rangers and once again missed! My Longbeards suffered through combat, putting wounds on both Cold One Chariots and the Supreme Sorceress, but ultimately losing the combat. Fortunately, my Longbeards passed their Stubborn break test.

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D4: I decided to keep my Rangers right where they were so that they could kill off the remaining Dark Rider who had rallied on my opponent's previous turn. Now that the Cold One Chariots wouldn't have 9 impact hits, I was sure to win combat with my Longbeards, even with WS2, so I wouldn't need the Rangers to help out there. My remaining Gyrocopter set up to steam the Warlocks and Shades and killed 2 Warlocks and a single Shade. Both units passed their panic checks, unfortunately. The Rangers shot the Dark Rider until he looked like a used Biore strip! (The picture below was actually taken on my opponent's Turn 5.) My Longbeards proceeded to lose a couple more of their number, but in return, they killed the Supreme Sorceress and won combat. One of the Cold One Chariots ran, but the other passed its break test, keeping my Longbeards pinned in place for another round of combat.

P1000750

 

DE5: My opponent rallied his fleeing Cold One Chariot and reformed it to face my Gyrocopter. The Witch Elves advanced from the board edge. The Winds of Magic proved fickle again, granting my opponent only a few power dice, with which he dumped all of them into casting an empowered version of Doombolt at my Gyrocopter. He failed to meet the casting value, however. The Bolt Thrower targeted the Rangers again with a single-shot, but again missed. In combat, my Longbeards finally despatched the Cold One Chariot and reformed.

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D5: My Rangers swift-reformed and moved up 3 inches into the forest--which made them cause Fear, whatever--to attempt a last-turn shot at the Bolt Thrower. The Longbeards charged the remaining Cold One Chariot, which opted to hold its ground. The Gyrocopter stayed put to shoot the Shades and Warlocks, hoping to finish them off in the process. Its Steam Gun shot killed off a Shade and a single Warlock. The 2 remaining Warlocks passed their panic test. The Longbeards killed the Cold One Chariot and reformed. Now, this was tricky. I would have to play it smart, since my Longbeards were so close to the Witch Elves, so I positioned them so that when they fled that inevitable charge on my opponent's turn, they would be able to bounce through the other units beyond. I was actually pretty anxious. I realized I had gotten a bit carried away, and I should have left the Cold One Chariot well enough alone. In my anxiety (which, as we've established, I was thoroughly enjoying #masochism #shouldprobablygethelp #moreptsdcounselingneeded), I failed to take pictures, though I really should have just to have had a good visual record of what happened next.

 

DE6: The Warlocks charged my Longbeards. I held fast against that charge. The Witch Elves then charged my Longbeards, so I decided to flee that charge. Their flight landed them behind the Warlocks, causing both units to fail their charges, the Warlocks moving just a couple of inches forward, while the Witch Elves moved up 5 inches. Finally, my opponent then charged my Longbeards with his remaining Shade. My Longbeards fled once more through the Warlocks, landing right in front of the Warlocks and barely escaping the Shade, which moved 5 or 6 inches. When all was said and done, my Longbeards had just barely avoided total destruction. I knew it had taken a certain amount of luck, since the unit could have been caught, but I felt I had played the odds and won. The Bolt Thrower took careful aim and missed my Rangers entirely once more...

 

D6: All I had to do was see what points I could shore up. My Gyrocopter charged the Shade, which held so I wouldn't try to redirect into the Warlocks, which evidently cost more. My Longbeards rallied. The Rangers took careful aim and hit a ton but managed only a single wound on the Bolt Thrower. The Gyrocopter killed the Shade and overran into the Warlocks. The game ended there.

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We totalled up points, and I came out on top by 600+ points. Solid victory. Would have been a 15 to 5 win on a 20-point scale. I really had mixed feelings about my performance in this game. I felt I had really played fast and loose and probably didn't deserve the win. Meanwhile, the game did confirm several of my assumptions about the way my force would function and perform. I did have a great time, though, and I think my opponent did, too. That's the important thing when it comes down to it, right? Hope you enjoyed the read! Peace!


Edited by Swordthain, 18 September 2014 - 03:39 AM.


#2 Ozariig

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 12:03 PM

I was so enthralled by the battle report that I managed to burn the rice for lunch.  I think it was worth it, but my wife might disagree ;)

Thanks for putting together the report, Swordthain, and congrats on the win!  Do you have any ideas for where you should have deployed your miners in hindsight?



#3 cptfluffy

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 04:15 PM

Great report Swordthain, as ussual. Always love the Ambush list. I've been trying to get more of them myself, but I'm afraid my ussual opponent is quite done dealing with dwarfs for atleast a month.

 

I did have a quick question about DE6. You said you fled the Witch Elf horde charge with the Longbeards... Doesn't Immune to Psychology also tack on that you may not opt for Flee! as a charge reaction?


Edited by cptfluffy, 20 September 2014 - 04:16 PM.


#4 Swordthain

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 10:11 PM

I was so enthralled by the battle report that I managed to burn the rice for lunch.  I think it was worth it, but my wife might disagree ;)

Thanks for putting together the report, Swordthain, and congrats on the win!  Do you have any ideas for where you should have deployed your miners in hindsight?

 

Ha! I'm glad you enjoyed it so much! In hindsight, I would have placed my Miners on the back of my opponent's deployment zone 5-wide with the left side of the unit (from my perspective across from the Miners) on a line 24" from the left edge of the board; I would have then reformed the unit in order to get it into horde formation facing towards the right side of the board. That would have provided me with a solid battle line by the end of the turn, presenting my opponent with a serious dilemma in attempting to engage any of the three units with anything other than forlorn hope.

 

Great report Swordthain, as ussual. Always love the Ambush list. I've been trying to get more of them myself, but I'm afraid my ussual opponent is quite done dealing with dwarfs for atleast a month.

 

I did have a quick question about DE6. You said you fled the Witch Elf horde charge with the Longbeards... Doesn't Immune to Psychology also tack on that you may not opt for Flee! as a charge reaction?

 

Thanks, friend! Getting beat by Dwarfs without war machines can suggest to an opponent that his or her generalship is to blame rather than the broken Cannons Dwarfs get. ;-)

 

Yeah, you're right about that final Flee! charge reaction. I completely forgot that the Longbeards are Immune to Psychology now and not just Immune to Panic! That's what I get for playing several editions of the same game, I guess. Ha! Doing the math, I doubt that had I played by the current, real rules like I should have that it would have significantly changed the outcome of the game. Odds are my Longbeards would have taken the last wound off the Cauldron in the first round, giving me another 300+ points, but from there, neither one of us would have succeeded in killing the other unit. (Even in the second round of combat on my last turn, odds are my Longbeards would have actually won combat by a single point.)

 

EDIT: Provided I can do math...   :blink:


Edited by Swordthain, 20 September 2014 - 10:13 PM.


#5 cptfluffy

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 12:11 AM

Yeah, I really do enjoy the Ambush strat. Sadly, I came back to WHFB a bit late, and was never able to aquire all the right models to play it last ed. with the better anvil. But, it still is a nice change of pace. And it's great too the see look on someones face, when they see they are playing dwarfs (Frown), then see just a single unit drop (now Completely confused).

 

Looking at the board I would agree, that it wouldn't have changed much. As for the Miners, I feel like they ended up doing a great job with pulling the CoB from the main fight and kept it from supporting anything else. And who knows, had the rolls been different you could have finished the CoB in one moment of suicidal glory.



#6 Swordthain

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 03:28 AM

It's true. I think this is a great example of how even a bad placement of an entire horde of Miners can still make an overall significantly advantageous influence on a game. A lot of folks have voiced their concerns about Miners, but when I use them badly and they still help me more than they hurt me...



#7 Uvatha

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 12:24 AM

Congratulations on the win and thanks for the nice reading.



#8 Swordthain

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 02:03 AM

Thanks, man! I'm glad you enjoyed the battle report!



#9 Stymie Jackson

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 08:53 PM

The miners did their job I think. Especially considering the win in the end. Better them than something more expensive, with characters. I have my doubts about the Longbeards taking that PMS beatodwn.

 

Gotta love Swordthain keeping the big ol' blocks alive and well.

 

I think the list is ready for the GT circuit.


Edited by Stymie Jackson, 22 September 2014 - 08:54 PM.


#10 Swordthain

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 12:58 AM

You don't think the Longbeards would have survived? I would have thought my biggest worry would be failing my Stubborn break test.



#11 Montegue

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 12:05 PM

If your thane is in there and survives, I think they survive the beatdown. And if they're deep they *might* even win a combat, depending (most likely on turn 1, if he (lulz) flubs his rolls or you go gangbusters on saves. 



#12 Swordthain

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 02:23 PM

Okay, before I begin, I need to clear up something. I wanted to justify myself in keeping the win for this game before, and that, I realize, is just pretentious, so for that I apologize, everyone. I'm not actually trying to prove myself right or justified in having won the game anymore. The bottom line is that I had completely forgotten that Longbeards are now Immune to Psychology and cannot therefore declare a "Flee!" charge reaction. I've already apologized to my opponent.

 

That said, it might be interesting to run a scenario to see whether I should have gone ahead and held against the Witch Elf/CoB charge had I actually had the choice of having my Longbeards flee:

 

The Cauldron and 22 Witch Elves... I assume my Runesmith issues a challenge that is accepted by the Witch Elf Hag. Is that a safe assumption to make? Would the Dark Elf player been able to refuse the challenge, and if he did, what would that have meant? Could he have accepted with his CoB or merely with the Death Hag on it? Whomever accepted the challenge, since the Witch Elves had the Banner of Eternal Flame, and my Runesmith had a RotFurnace, I can safely assume no wounds are dealt to my Runesmith. 32 Attacks from the rest of the Witch Elves give 24 hits (of which 4 automatically wound) and translates to 11.02 wounds, 3.64 unsaved wounds. The Cauldron's attacks kill: 1.01 more from the Witch Elf crew, the impact hits kill another 2.95, and the Death Hag kills another 1.44 Dwarfs, totalling 9 dead Dwarfs. We'll imagine 10 Longbeard attacks and 4 Runesmith attacks into the Witch Elves and 4 Longbeard attacks against the Cauldron: 4.05 unsaved wounds against the Witch Elves, 0.19  unsaved wounds on the Cauldron. The Longbeards lose combat and have about a 1-in-5 chance of breaking. If they do break, who knows. If they don't break, they, we'll do another round of close combat. The Witch Elves and Cauldron still have 13 Longbeards to kill and fewer of their number with which to do so this time. Assuming I took minimum attacks on the Cauldron, they'll still get all of its attacks--except for the impact hits--and re-rolls to wound for everyone in the unit. Despite all of that, this will once again mean that the Longbeards lose combat and have to test on Stubborn 9 for their break test. If I allocated more attacks against the Cauldron to try to make sure my Longbeards could take it down in the first round, it means that there are merely <20 Witch Elves left without the attacks from the Cauldron and the re-rolls to wound, which are very much unimpressive on their own. The second round of combat might see the Longbeards actually win by a point or two.

 

So, it seems it would really have been a gamble either way. In retrospect, I think I would have taken that chance, since the CoB was down to a single remaining wound and Longbeards are exceptionally resilient against unsupported and unbuffed Witch Elves. If things had gone badly for the Longbeards, a significant chance exists that I could have lost the unit and both of the accompanying Runesmiths, which would have turned a solid win into something close to a draw or even minor defeat. The Longbeards would have had to have been killed to the Dwarf, though, in order for them to no longer be Stubborn, since I had the RoStoicism on their unit standard. Thoughts, anyone?



#13 Stymie Jackson

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 04:02 PM

I believe you're underestimating the Witch Elf damage output. 32 attacks should come up with at least 5 '6's on the initial to hit roll, then when they re-roll the 16 misses that's another 2 or 3 poison hits. That'll drive up their kills more...do they still have armor piercing?

 

That said, I forgot the Cauldron was down to one wound. If you got the lucky wound on it early then you probably win the fight. Without the cauldron that's just too many Longbeards to grind down before they are themselves wiped out in all likelyhood. They need that super-frenzy to win against that massive unit of shieldbeards.

 

With the cauldron? That fight is too dicey for my taste and I think dragging them out of battle, even as expensive as it was with miners, was the right call. You killed the rest of the army, and avoided the deathstar. That's a solid tournament win as long as you..ahem, avoid cheatin'.

 

What are the odds a rear-charging gyro survives long enough to lose combat, flee, and drag them away? That would be a cheaper alternative, but strikes me as less reliable.

 

And yeah, I've made the ItP mistake before myself man! Old habits die hard...


Edited by Stymie Jackson, 23 September 2014 - 04:12 PM.


#14 Swordthain

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 04:47 PM

You're right about the initial roll. I'm not sure how I missed that. So, that raises the damage output to about 4.1 unsaved wounds instead of 3.64. I don't think they have AP anymore. I talked with my opponent afterwards about including the Razor Standard on the unit instead of the Banner of Eternal Flame, which is still a quandary.

 

I should have thought about using my Gyrocopters better to redirect the CoB and Witch Elves. One of the problems early on was that my opponent had all his chaff in front to keep them off. But I really haven't had a ton of experience with Gyrocopters yet, so I'm sure I'll do better with them in the future as I learn better how to use their tactical capabilities as efficient assets.

 

Looking at it again, I might have refrained from charging the chariot. I could have afforded to leave it well enough alone in order to keep my Shieldbeards completely out of the situation to being with. I guess I got greedy.

 

I have many old habits that are proving tenacious to be gotten rid of... Longbeards only being Immune to Panic rather than Immune to Psychology is one old habit, at least, that is sure to die for good, though, after all this! Ha!



#15 Stymie Jackson

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 11:24 PM

I guess they only had AP in their last book or I just always faced people who took the Razor Standard. With no armor piercing they really couldn't threaten your Shieldbeards, even with super-frenzy from the Cauldron. That pip of armor makes a big difference with their number of attacks...with correct poison and armor piercing they are out-killing you every turn so you can't take away that frenzy with a win, and it would come down to if you took the last wound off the cauldron (which would probably take some damage away from the witches themselves as you tried that.

 

So ok, maybe the miners were wasted, and you could have stopped that deathstar cold with good ol' Shieldbeards.

 

In fact, it's downright idiotic to take them with the flaming banner. My normal list would have a field day with them and so would Monty and many others. Take one Runesmith with a 2+ AS. Add Furnace and Groth. Laugh as the single model holds up the entire Witch Elf deathstar all friggin' game. Basically re-rollable 2+ save against every would they deal...LMAO. Who needs Turd Eye of Zeench?

 

EDIT: Still unsure on the witch elf damage. 32 attacks should yield more damage after poison accounted for. First 32 dice rolled to hit should get around 5 poison and 11 regular hits, then re-roll misses yields 3 more poison and 5 more hits. The 15ish regular hits generate probably 5 wounds, add maybe one from Murderous Prowess re-roll. So that's about 13-14 wounds. Cut that in half for armor, then 1/6 for parry and you're looking at maybe 6 wounds taken, not 4 (I'm rounding off of course pretty heavily). If they had AP that's now around 8 kills. What am I getting wrong?

 

Note: I've had bad experiences with witch elves in the past so I'm a little leery of them and that may be influencing my opinions.


Edited by Stymie Jackson, 23 September 2014 - 11:37 PM.


#16 Montegue

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Posted 24 September 2014 - 03:07 AM

Ironbreakers can handle them (with enough bodies), but Longbeards need to get lucky. We really don't have any one unit that can reliably handle them. 

 

Except for gyros. :) Witches hate gyros. 



#17 Khazagrim Ironheart

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Posted 24 September 2014 - 04:28 PM

@ Swordthain

Thx for the great report. You had a very interesting list and congratulation for the win. I do think you deserved it, even if you made some mistakes (like charging those miners in instead of letting the witches charge and overrun off the board, but that turned out very well in the end. Not to mention feeding them to the witches in the first place), I think that your opponent have made more. He seams to struggle with his magic phases (and it's not just about low magic rolls) Boosted doombolt needs 24+ to cast, trying this on 4 dice while the target is a single gyro is just a very bad idea. 24+ is just to much for a magic missile, the normal version is solid enough and much easier to cast. I also don't understand why use word of pain at 9+ for -d3 WS/BS while he could have casted the boosted version at only 12+ for -d3 WS and BS AND -d3 S and I , which would have made your longbeards unable to deal any damage in combat.

He also should have been much more aggressive with his witches. They seem to hardly move in 2 turns while they could have moved 20". Maybe he was taken aback by your list (which anyone probably would).

 

@ Stimmy jackson

The DE did have a 25pts armor piercing banner in their 7th AB.

Maybe I misunderstood you, but I will try to clarify some things nonetheless. Super frenzy (+2 attack) is an effect from the witchbrew or from the innate bound spell from the cauldron when they are used on already frenzied units. The actual buff provided by the cauldron is allowing rerolls to wound on units at 6" of it, and gives the joined unit a 6++ (5++ if in witches).

So that would be more like 8 regular wounds and 8 poisoned, and about 7 dead longbeards (about 9 with armor piercing). This is far from their best match up, but witch with cauldron will still beat shieldbeards handily. Ironbreakers are indeed able to beat them.

 



#18 Swordthain

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Posted 24 September 2014 - 10:42 PM

Thank you, Khazagrim! It seemed obvious to me that my opponent had a plan initially regarding the magic phase. His approach seemed very methodical. He was careful to try to draw out my Runes of Spellbreaking and my dispel dice while still trying to retain dice to use on whatever spells he could cast that would  be helpful after pushing through my magic defense. I think he was playing a little from the hip towards the end, so to speak. He wasn't worried about a miscast, really, since he had the Supreme Sorceress set up the way he did. Additionally, he had spent so much energy trying to take out the Gyrocopters by the end that I think he was just a wee bit perturbed by them.  :dry: I think his Witch Elves also got bogged down early on by the chaff that was in his way, and then my Miners came onto the board on my second turn, so he hadn't gotten far yet with them.







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