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2500 Agressive And Shooty

anvil grimm bugman shooty thunderer ranger

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#1 nicholunch

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 08:20 PM

Hi guys n gals,

 

The new rules really hurt the AoD. But I just painted my model last Nov and really want to use it. Also, with Nagash, there might be some opportunities to use more heroes...so here goes testing out some heroes

 

I'm looking to be annoying with some vanguard and scouts, but still have a solid defense. Any suggestions?...and if you're going to hate on the AoD, make it constructive criticism. Like, 'drop the AoD and add two runesmiths to each gunline', and not just hate.

 

Probably going up against some magic users tonight like HE or Empire.

 

Lords - 418

 

R-Lord

AoD

Mro Balance

Ro Spellbreaking x2

Ro stone

Ro parrying

Shld

 

Heroes - 545

 

Grimm Burlocksson

 

Josef Bugman

 

Thane

BSB

Ro resistance x2

Mro Grungni

BoP

Shld

 

Core - 658

 

Thunders x23

Full Command

Shld

 

Thunderer x23

Full Command

Shld

 

Special - 505

 

Organ Gun

Ro accuracy

 

Grudge Thrower

Mro penetrating x2

Ro accuracy

Ro burning

 

Gyrocopter

Vanguard

 

Gyrocopter

Vanguard

 

Rare - 370

 

Rangers x20

Full Command (upgrade by Bugman included)

 

 

The plan would be to scout and vanguard the weak, vulnerable parts. Use the scare tactics to disrupt their plan. Fend off anyone with with the gunlines, bomb with the thrower, and buff with the AoD with +1 to AS and kill T3 units with the shooty spell. Burlocksson would help the shooters and the thane would help with Grungni. Bugman buffs and makes the Rangers kill.

 

Thoughts and critiques welcome! Thanks!



#2 nicholunch

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 09:16 PM

whoops. I meant handgun on the Thane, not BoP.



#3 Lynn

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 09:52 PM

I play exclusive gunline allot actually and it works well.

A few issues:

Your organ gun is rare not special.

Only 50% of the gyro's rounded up can have vanguard so 2 gyro's = 1 Vanguard

 

If you are takeing a Runelord and anvil it will serve as a "warmachine" + anvil unit.

6 Dice the damage spell last and remember anvil wont blow up only prevents any spells being cast that turn.

Tank him up to be durable:

Runelord, Shield, AoD

RoShielding, RoIron, RoStone

RoParrying

MRoBalance, RoSpellbreaking

 

The shielding helps allot against ranged stuff like cannons!

Spellcast protection runes are pretty much mandatory since well he's slurping allot of points you need to limit the amount of dispell runesmiths.

If ranged can't kill it CC is next so parry and iron/stone help.

His bane is the characteristic tests that hurt warmachines hard.

 

I personally wouldn't take josef and his rangers in this set up. Your army is a stand still the gyro's do fly about but usually try to avoid direct combat and hunt warmachines, force Ld test marches, template over squishy characters (necro's,..) to get a lucky failed Look out sir (you cause these to fail by sheer quantity of template weapons)

Josef however is allot of points that cant escape and is far infront. Gyro's will redirect and take attention bugman just gives points to the enemy.

 

Thane BSB

Give him a handgun cost the same as buying a thunderer but that thunderer has higher BS!

BoP? Don't know what this refers to (brace of pistols? not allowed) do remember you can only take banner runes on BSB(Saw the second post now sorry)

Grungi is what you need a slowness is a option (especially if you have all thunderers in 1 unit this is a good option)

Don't give him a shield unless its spare points if he's in the thunderers and they've been reached its over (you did deploy as far back as you could I hope)

 

Thunderers dump the FC you 'could' keep the veteran but only if you give him brace of pistol for the stand and shoot at short range (har har dark elves witches stand at their max charge distance then watch them fail it, Yes you moved and cant shoot but you shoot dureing Stand and shoot!) the banners +1 combat score wont make a diffirence they'll get hammered the swift reform doesnt matter cause we cant move and shoot.

 

You need atleast 1 cannon, gyro's are best at uneven numbers (1 3 5)

Get a Organ and a flame cannon (ogre's and does good damage)

 

You win by causeing panic (flame cannon 25% losses) preventing marches due to proximity gyro's and redirect gyro's.

People that dont panic need to be killed (causeing panic checks around the destroyed unit) or forcing a unit to run due to panic in their path.

 

Its all about makeing the 2 turns they need to catch you turn into 4+ turns

 


Edited by Lynn, 11 September 2014 - 10:25 PM.


#4 nicholunch

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 03:28 AM

A few issues:
Your organ gun is rare not special.
Only 50% of the gyro's rounded up can have vanguard so 2 gyro's = 1 Vanguard

...

Its all about makeing the 2 turns they need to catch you turn into 4+ turns


Your right! My bad on the mistakes. And I agree about the 2 turns to 4+.

I thought bugmans rangers would be a target...but he just didn't mind them. Worst mistake I made...I should put them in front to a slight flank. I put them in his rear and he just ran. Dwarfs don't chase well...that was stupid on my part. 550 points wasted!

The organ gun did beautifully to cut elves to shreds, but I coulda used a cannon on the pheonixes...I just have been hesitant because of their cost now. I miss the days of 90 points...I know their worth now and it cost me not having one.

I was able to combat his spells decently. He had +5 to his casts. I killed one of his spells with spellbreaking. But he kept giving a block of 55 spears 4+ ward with his mage. That was tough... The AoD was a tank! Spells are ok but not as useful as before.

All in all, it ended after 6 turns. I lost to a high elf and bugman was drinking and wandering about the board and didn't lose a single drunken ranger. :P

Thanks for your tips and ideas. Great feedback!

#5 Lynn

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 03:18 PM

Yeah even at 120 points a single cannon is powerful, with rune of forging its reliable.

Happen to have a full report on the battle?



#6 nicholunch

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 01:00 AM

Yeah even at 120 points a single cannon is powerful, with rune of forging its reliable.

Happen to have a full report on the battle?

 

Yeah, I've used canons plenty...but I was trying the Grudge Thrower since I never used it when the canon was 90pts. Grudge Thrower with penetrating x2 and forging means you almost won't ever misfire and will almost definitely hit on that S10 center.

 

Here's the Battle Report:

 

Deployment: I deployed in a gunline fashion with the AoD in between the two thunderer units and the organ in front of the AoD. Diamond Defense as they call it in soccer. BSB on the corner of the unit providing all four units with effects of Grungni. The Grudge Thrower was behind and to the left rear corner of the left unit of thunderers. I was placed in the left corner of the battlefield, about 3" from the board edge. The gyros were in front each of the thunderer units. Vanguard on the left of the two.

 

High Elf player (store owner :P) was deployed in the center with the following, starting from his right: Bolt thrower, 25 sword masters, 55 sea guard (including BSB and 2 mages), 25 sword masters, and finally 2 frost phoenixes.

 

Vanguarded my gyro to a forest edge in front of me, 12" from the corner of his sword master unit. Dropped my rangers to the rear corner near his outer phoenix. He put 2 units of scouts to the flank of my right thunderers (about middle of the board, my edge)

 

Turn 1: I was in the corner and so I wheeled the outer thunderer unit towards him since no one was in range and wanted to maximize my forward arc, and marched scouts towards his units (a whopping 6"...stupidest mistake ever! Bad placement). Sent one gyro towards his scout's flank. AoD buffed my guys. I shot at the scouts with my organ gun...killed 4/5 with Grim's BS and they fled, shot the sea guard with grudge thrower and scatter missed, end of my turn 1.

 

He charged my gyro, i fled, he went 6" in range of my thunderers. Everything else marched. He did some magic buffs, magic marched his remaining scounts in the 3" gap behind my right thunderers and shot his bolt thrower and scouts. End of turn 2.

 

Turn 2: My right gyro flew past his phoenixes in range of his other sword master unit (the one near the rangers). My other gyro rallied and moved his 1" base mvmt. The AoD was dispelled for the 2d6 S4 hitter, and I miscast the +1 to AS on my gyro...did 1 wound to AoD. Shot with my left thunderers at swordmasters chasing the gyro, shot with my grudge thrower and missed, shot with my other thunderers (only half were in range) at the swordmasters chasing the gyro, and finally my organ gun at the scouts behind me. Killed em off (total wasted organ gun shots on his scouts = 38 in 2 turns). The rangers decided to take a shot at the swordmasters on the other side (where the gyro just got in range of), and the gyro shot. Killed a handful.

 

He charged my gyro, I fled and landed in front of the phoenixes I just flew past, he charged with his birds and forced my gyro off the board (but i managed to redirect his phoenixes for two turns...worth it?) He finally charged my other gyro (the one that just rallied) and I held (or else would've fled the field too). He did some more magic, added more buffs during magic phase. I dispelled some stuff, but had about 6 spells to choose from. I used my spellbreaking and killed his large template spell that does S3 damage under the large template (I should've used that on the extra marching spell). He shot his sea guard at my thunderers and killed 1. Shot and missed with his bolt thrower. In CC he did 3 wounds to my gyro, didn't roll any 6s for AS and the gyro died.

 

Turn 3: I marched my rangers 6". Buffed my guys with AoD and then the direct damage was dispelled. Shot my grudge thrower at the building full of sea guard, killed 4. Shot at the sword masters with my thunderers and organ gun and polished them off. Shot at his other sword masters with my thunderers and killed about half, leaving about 10.

 

He moved his birds (slightly out of charge range and one didn't have the right facing) right behind my thunderers and to the flank (shouldn've kept that gap closed). He barely fit (and totally forgot to make him test leadership for marching so close!). Moved the sea guard out of the building. Marched with his sword masters. I dispelled his magical buffs, he hid his dice and I thought he threw all the remaining dice at the 2nd spell. I totally didn't see he had 1 left. Got his marching spell off (and now that I think about it, if I dispelled 2 spells, he shouldn't of been able to cast again...). He marched his guys over my thunderers (the ones that wheeled at the beginning for arc). He barely fit right behind them. It's like I left that space on purpose just the right size for him. But he was facing the wrong way. He shot with his bolt thrower and missed.

 

Turn 4: I marched with my rangers. Buffed my guys and killed a few with my direct damage spell. Shot and killed the remainder of his sword masters. Shot his bird and did three wounds with the organ gun. Scattered with the grudge thrower and didn't damage with S4 hit to his other bird.

 

He charged my grudge thrower with the sea guard. Charged my AoD with one bird, and charged the flank of my thunderers with his other (the were in two rank formation for optimal # of shots). He did one buff with his sea guard, i dispelled the rest. Missed with his bolt thrower. He killed my grudge thrower, did one wound to my AoD (down to three now). And my thunderers broke, he ran em down, and ran into my organ gun.

 

Turn  5: I reformed my thunderers to face his sea guard, marched my rangers (not too far off now). Buffed my guys with AoD. Lost the attack on the organ gun. He reformed towards the AoD.

 

He charged my thunderers, I stood and fired. Killed a hand full. He charged my AoD with his bird. He miscast on his wizard and killed some of his sea guard. He killed my AoD with his two birds, overran with one into my thunderers. He broke my thunderers and ran em down with the bird.

 

Turn 6: Marched with my rangers.

 

So, I wasn't wiped off the table (almost!) but I made a few mistakes by letting him behind me. I was giving him a hard time with how he was doing his 'march' spell. He kept reforming with it. So, the second time I said he can't do it. It doesn't say anything in the rules about reforming. I totally forgot to make him take like 4 leadership tests for marching close to me (dang!). But, honestly, him going behind me kept my thunderers around for 1 more turn I think.

 

And my biggest mistake was putting the rangers in his flank/rear. I should've have put them near the vanguarding gyro, in the forest. Then that would've contested his sword masters from charging the gyro so early. If I had done that, I could have pestered his sea guard and sword masters with that gyro and provided some deflection from his sea guard getting in so easily.

 

But the AoD did what it was supposed to. I kept his bird occupied for 2-3 turns while he slowly died. Not as punchy as before but worth playing with every once in a while (especially since I spent the time to paint it).

 

There you go!


Edited by nicholunch, 13 September 2014 - 01:16 AM.


#7 nicholunch

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 01:20 AM

If my thunderers get into battle, I feel like the saving grace would be shlds. I pulled them because I understood your logic...hoping they don't ever see CC. But if they do have them, they at least get the 5+ parry. Probably not ground breaking, but worth 1pt a piece now with shieldwall?



#8 Zidane_blade

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 05:02 AM

What's a Rune of Resistance?.....;-)

#9 nicholunch

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 02:41 PM

Ro sanctuary. I couldn't remember the name at the time of typing. :)

#10 MeuhMeuh

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 04:15 PM

I'm not a very good general but for what it's worth, here is my opinion :

 

I don't really get the purpose of bugman and 20 ranger in this army. They did pretty much nothing on this game and it was expected, I guess. 
M3, when all your army has to stand and shoot, waiting for him to come, doesn't often close the gap.. At more than 500 points the unit (1/5 of your army), it's a bit "too much" for their role in my opinion.

I like the rest very much (except for Anvil that is indeed disapointing in this new book. But it's very cool to see people playing it anyway, just for the sake of it :P). I feel that removing bugman and some ranger (maybe play them even by 10 if you want to make them a bigger threat than a 5 guys unit) would clear enough points (more than 300) and offer you a solid close combat pack to deal with what survived your shoots.

Also, for the battle report : I'm wondering why didn't you shoot the pheonyx instead of the sword masters ( I'm a "noob", but the way I see it, I always shoot the fast/flying units first, and then the scary packs/monsters).



#11 nicholunch

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 10:31 PM

I should've shot the phoenixes 1 turn sooner (hindsight is 20/20). He was busy charging and worrying about the gyro. Didn't want to waste the opportunity to shoot his advancing swords. I wanted to try rangers too.

I never play rangers and thought they'd be good distraction and a little aggression to tie up his flanks/flying monsters. But I played them wrong and it cost me the game. I shouldvr deployed them near vanguarding gyro. That would tied up one unit of swords and provided a flank attack to his spears. I put em on the other side originally because I thought his Phoenix would care and attack. I was wrong.

Edited by nicholunch, 13 September 2014 - 11:40 PM.


#12 nicholunch

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 04:59 PM

So, Here's an alternative competitive list if taking out the AoD (because, competitively, it's not the ideal choice) and changing up some of the units specifics... What do you guys think?

 

Heroes: 625
 
Runesmith 
spell breaking x2
 
Runesmith 
spellbreaking & furnace
 
Runesmith 
spellbreaking, GW
 
Grim Burlockson
character
 
Thane
BSB, Mro grungni, handgun, GW, shld
 
Core: 669
 
Longbeards x28
Shld, full command, slowness
 
Thunderers x20
 
Special: 835
 
grudge thrower
penetrating, forging
 
Cannon
forging, burning
 
Cannon
forging
 
Gyrocopter
vanguard
 
Gyrocopter
 
Miners x18
champ, drill
 
Rare: 370
 
Irondrakes x20
musician and standard, slowness x2
 
The changes made reflect the need to maintain high magic defense. 3 Runesmiths = three rolls to channel and three chances to dispel (with one chance to kill a spell).
 
The Irondrakes to replace the rangers because they are a key unit that can replace the Organ gun for powerful shots, but can also slow the charge with a banner and reform to prepare for a charge (adding 1 extra round of shooting before CC). And who knows, if the Irondrakes get the chance to charge, they are hitting with S5 hits round 1.
 
 
Also, the Longbeards for an anvil to replace the AoD as anvil.
 
And I replaced the organ gun and 2 grudge throwers with 2 canons and one grudge thrower. I think the canons can focus on monsters and multiple wound targets. Good for close attacks with grape shot. And the grudge thrower amped with penetrating to hit blocks of units.
 
And the Miners to replace rangers as well...I think they can be utilized to either kill the war machines or other shooty units in the enemies rear. Or if they make a lot of ground, can be used to help fortify a flank, etc.
 
I would put one Runesmith in each unit for Armour piercing and magic resistance. Grimm to the thunderers for extra distance or the Irondrakes for rerolls to hit (that would be nasty! Rerolls to hits on Irdondrakes!)

 


Edited by nicholunch, 14 September 2014 - 05:01 PM.


#13 MeuhMeuh

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 05:15 PM

Hey !

Here is what I think :

-3 runesmiths is too much. If you want more effectivness, just get 2 with 2 spelleatings. With the points you can always get valaya if you want to really negates magic, but I think it's still overkill.

-Accuracy is better than forging on the grudge thrower (1/3 to 5/9, so more than 50% chance to direct hit). That way it can shot big monsters if your canons miss (S10, 1D6Wounds, same as canons)
-I like the miners idea but if it's only for WM hunting, you don't want to have 18, 10 maximum I'd say. Even if it's for flanking against heavy close combat army, with the spare points, you can make 2 units of thunderers (2*15?) with shields to have more versatility. I think Grimm is better in the drakes anyway (their only weaknesses imo is their range and their BS3, either one can be negated by Mr Burloksson!)

Hope I helped !



#14 nicholunch

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 04:00 AM

But whats going to carry Valaya? Their isnt another banner carrier that can carry a banner that expensive without going with hammerers. I think three runesmiths gives a 50/50 chance of channeling dice in both yours and the enemies magic phase and an extra spellbreaking rune and armour piercing and magic resistance to group. Grungni ensures I don't need to care about most of the shooty spells and archers. And I could always trade that out for Valaya if needed.

#15 nicholunch

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 04:04 AM

Although accuracy is very very appealing to a grudge thrower, forging ensures you won't misfire. You already have 2/6 chances for rolling a direct hit, and if you don't have line of sight, you can't direct hit anyway...

Yeah, 18 miners was probably a little over zealous. Probably worth beefing up thunderers with taking miners to 10 or 12.

Thanks for your thoughts! Love talking strategy!





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