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Rules Of The Organ Gun

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#1 Gamlith

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 04:48 PM

Recently I have been using the organ gun alot in my gun line. I've heard great things about it, but it seems to consistently perform poorly for me. Perhaps I'm either using it wrong or just very unlucky. 

 

Here is my current understanding of how to use it:

 

1) Roll the artillery dice twice. Add the total for number of shots fired.

 

2) Take the number of shots fired and roll for hits

 

3) Take the number of hits and roll for wounds.

 

4) Opponent then does their thing of armor and ward saves.

 

I've heard conflicting uses on other forum posts such as rolling the artillery dice = number of automatic hits ( no need to roll for it to hit, just wounds.) Perhaps its conflicting editions, but if true would probably be much better. Which is the correct way to use this?

 

Thanks



#2 Narnor

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 05:00 PM

Thats how it worked in 6.5th edition :-) there You only rolled One die, and it was auto hits. This edition we have an effektive to hit roll og 4+ and roll 2 dies instead, so almost the same actually ;-) (but it did get a Nice bonus now that the ME BS matters and we Can rune it!)

Searching these and other forums, it is a sound rule to abandon All rules/discussions / comments older Than february 2014 ;-)

#3 Gamlith

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 05:12 PM

Thats how it worked in 6.5th edition :-) there You only rolled One die, and it was auto hits. This edition we have an effektive to hit roll og 4+ and roll 2 dies instead, so almost the same actually ;-) (but it did get a Nice bonus now that the ME BS matters and we Can rune it!)

Searching these and other forums, it is a sound rule to abandon All rules/discussions / comments older Than february 2014 ;-)

 

This edition we have an effective to hit roll of 4+ and roll 2 dies instead, so almost the same actually

 

Does this mean that after i roll both artillery die, I then roll to hit with 2d6 on the ballistics table?

 

For example- I roll two artillery die, they equal 10.

 

I roll 2d6 to see if they hit. It rolls a 8. It hits!

 

I roll to wound yadayadayada....


Edited by Gamlith, 10 September 2014 - 05:21 PM.


#4 Foe-Hammer

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 05:25 PM

 

Thats how it worked in 6.5th edition :-) there You only rolled One die, and it was auto hits. This edition we have an effektive to hit roll og 4+ and roll 2 dies instead, so almost the same actually ;-) (but it did get a Nice bonus now that the ME BS matters and we Can rune it!)

Searching these and other forums, it is a sound rule to abandon All rules/discussions / comments older Than february 2014 ;-)

 

This edition we have an effective to hit roll of 4+ and roll 2 dies instead, so almost the same actually

 

Does this mean that after i roll both artillary die, I then roll to hit with 2d6 on the balistics table?

 

For example- I roll to artillary die, they equal 10.

 

I roll 2d6 to see if they hit. It rolls a 8. It hits!

 

I roll to wound yadayadayada....

 

 

You roll two artillery dice to determine the total number of shots fired.  Then you roll to hit, which is a number of D6 equal to the number on both artillery dice.

 

For example:

You roll 2 artillery dice and you get 6 and 4 for a total of 10 shots

You then roll 10 D6 to hit - one dice for every shot fired from the artillery dice

Then for every D6 that hit, you roll to wound...  and so on.



#5 Gamlith

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 05:33 PM

 

 

Thats how it worked in 6.5th edition :-) there You only rolled One die, and it was auto hits. This edition we have an effektive to hit roll og 4+ and roll 2 dies instead, so almost the same actually ;-) (but it did get a Nice bonus now that the ME BS matters and we Can rune it!)

Searching these and other forums, it is a sound rule to abandon All rules/discussions / comments older Than february 2014 ;-)

 

This edition we have an effective to hit roll of 4+ and roll 2 dies instead, so almost the same actually

 

Does this mean that after i roll both artillary die, I then roll to hit with 2d6 on the balistics table?

 

For example- I roll to artillary die, they equal 10.

 

I roll 2d6 to see if they hit. It rolls a 8. It hits!

 

I roll to wound yadayadayada....

 

 

You roll two artillery dice to determine the total number of shots fired.  Then you roll to hit, which is a number of D6 equal to the number on both artillery dice.

 

For example:

You roll 2 artillery dice and you get 6 and 4 for a total of 10 shots

You then roll 10 D6 to hit - one dice for every shot fired from the artillery dice

Then for every D6 that hit, you roll to wound...  and so on.

 

Doesn't seem too reliable. Perhaps its just some unlucky rolls on my part.

Thanks for clearing it up.



#6 Foe-Hammer

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 05:40 PM

 

 

 

Thats how it worked in 6.5th edition :-) there You only rolled One die, and it was auto hits. This edition we have an effektive to hit roll og 4+ and roll 2 dies instead, so almost the same actually ;-) (but it did get a Nice bonus now that the ME BS matters and we Can rune it!)

Searching these and other forums, it is a sound rule to abandon All rules/discussions / comments older Than february 2014 ;-)

 

This edition we have an effective to hit roll of 4+ and roll 2 dies instead, so almost the same actually

 

Does this mean that after i roll both artillary die, I then roll to hit with 2d6 on the balistics table?

 

For example- I roll to artillary die, they equal 10.

 

I roll 2d6 to see if they hit. It rolls a 8. It hits!

 

I roll to wound yadayadayada....

 

 

You roll two artillery dice to determine the total number of shots fired.  Then you roll to hit, which is a number of D6 equal to the number on both artillery dice.

 

For example:

You roll 2 artillery dice and you get 6 and 4 for a total of 10 shots

You then roll 10 D6 to hit - one dice for every shot fired from the artillery dice

Then for every D6 that hit, you roll to wound...  and so on.

 

Doesn't seem too reliable. Perhaps its just some unlucky rolls on my part.

Thanks for clearing it up.

 

 

It really depends on what units you target and what you are facing.  It can destroy heavy cavalry and fast cavalry units as well as some monsters (depending on the monster) but don't expect it to take down a dragon.  :)

 

What have you been using the Organ Gun against?

 

 

 



#7 Bimli

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 05:41 PM

you roll 2 artillary dice what ever you score is the amount of shot you get. lets say you roll a 4 and a 6 you get 10 shots. Now you roll 10 shot to hit and what ever the outcome of the hits you then roll to wound.

 

That being said engineer give you a re-roll and bs 4 you can get the rune of accuracy so on close range your hitting on 2's (15")



#8 Gamlith

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 05:52 PM

 

 

 

 

Thats how it worked in 6.5th edition :-) there You only rolled One die, and it was auto hits. This edition we have an effektive to hit roll og 4+ and roll 2 dies instead, so almost the same actually ;-) (but it did get a Nice bonus now that the ME BS matters and we Can rune it!)

Searching these and other forums, it is a sound rule to abandon All rules/discussions / comments older Than february 2014 ;-)

 

This edition we have an effective to hit roll of 4+ and roll 2 dies instead, so almost the same actually

 

Does this mean that after i roll both artillary die, I then roll to hit with 2d6 on the balistics table?

 

For example- I roll to artillary die, they equal 10.

 

I roll 2d6 to see if they hit. It rolls a 8. It hits!

 

I roll to wound yadayadayada....

 

 

You roll two artillery dice to determine the total number of shots fired.  Then you roll to hit, which is a number of D6 equal to the number on both artillery dice.

 

For example:

You roll 2 artillery dice and you get 6 and 4 for a total of 10 shots

You then roll 10 D6 to hit - one dice for every shot fired from the artillery dice

Then for every D6 that hit, you roll to wound...  and so on.

 

Doesn't seem too reliable. Perhaps its just some unlucky rolls on my part.

Thanks for clearing it up.

 

 

It really depends on what units you target and what you are facing.  It can destroy heavy cavalry and fast cavalry units as well as some monsters (depending on the monster) but don't expect it to take down a dragon.   :)

 

What have you been using the Organ Gun against?

 

Ive played two games vs skaven. The organ gun killed maybe 2-4 skaven slaves per turn. =(

Made me question its use and ability.



#9 Gamlith

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 05:55 PM

you roll 2 artillary dice what ever you score is the amount of shot you get. lets say you roll a 4 and a 6 you get 10 shots. Now you roll 10 shot to hit and what ever the outcome of the hits you then roll to wound.

 

That being said engineer give you a re-roll and bs 4 you can get the rune of accuracy so on close range your hitting on 2's (15")

Oh, hitting on 2's can work. I don't have the book in front of me but what does Ro accuracy do again?



#10 Foe-Hammer

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 05:58 PM

The Organ Gun is not the best warmachine against Skaven, simply due to the sheer number of troops they can bring to the table, especially the slaves.  You are better off using Cannons, Flame Cannons and Grudge Throwers against Skaven.  :)



#11 Gotrong Gudmundsson

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 06:10 PM

Rune of Accuracy gives it +1 to hit, making it essentially BS4. If you add a Master Engineer to it, it's BS5 (and you may reroll 1 artillery dice). With the runes and ME support, an Organ Gun becomes a killing machine and a very consistent one at that. In all my games I've not had one roll a true misfire as of yet.

 

Skavenslaves is a poor target for an Organ Gun indeed :P



#12 Narnor

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 06:31 PM

Sry sry, Can see there was some confussion. The "effektive to hit roll of 4+" meant we as BS3 have to roll to hit on 4+ on short range. I actually see it as an improvement, since 2 artillery dice Means fewer (fatal) misfires, and if You roll 2 8's on short range it, statistically, gives the same result as the previous OG, since half of the 16 shots go through like if You had the old and rolled an 8. Its Also a Nice buff with 30 Inch range, instead of 24", and that we Can rune it. However, it cant take out skirmishers as easily now unfortunately.

#13 Gotrong Gudmundsson

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 06:54 PM

With BS4/BS5 it can take out Skirmishers, especially with increased amount of bullets!

 

The biggest buff to the Organ Gun was indeed the range 30" :) Now it can threaten a whole lot of stuff turn 1!



#14 Foe-Hammer

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 07:15 PM

With the Rune of Accuracy or a Master Engineer, it can destroy skirmishing units with the amount of shots is can fire.   :2guns:



#15 Volsh

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 08:24 PM

Can anyone provide a good explanation of the fluff of rolling for number of shots?  I mean, if I'm firing a weapon that I understand, I expect to pretty much get the same number of shots every time.  The organ gun can get anything from 4 to 20 shots without misfiring.  So what is the flavor explanation as to why you might have 5 times as many shots but no misfires?  



#16 lecfast

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 08:45 PM

Can anyone provide a good explanation of the fluff of rolling for number of shots? I mean, if I'm firing a weapon that I understand, I expect to pretty much get the same number of shots every time. The organ gun can get anything from 4 to 20 shots without misfiring. So what is the flavor explanation as to why you might have 5 times as many shots but no misfires?

Woth the previous og rules it could be explained by how many shots were "on target", or with the empire's hbvg it can be explained by the rotation, but with the new rules, it is a bit more questionable on how it works.

#17 Ozariig

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 09:22 PM

Can anyone provide a good explanation of the fluff of rolling for number of shots?  I mean, if I'm firing a weapon that I understand, I expect to pretty much get the same number of shots every time.  The organ gun can get anything from 4 to 20 shots without misfiring.  So what is the flavor explanation as to why you might have 5 times as many shots but no misfires?  

 

I'm not an expert when it comes to guns, but I have a couple of ideas.  Hopefully someone who is more in-the-know can help us figure out what makes sense for realism and what doesn't!

 

1) Maybe "shots" is the wrong word to use, and we should think of it more like "potential hits", due to bouncing factors or fragmentation of the ammunition or penetration of ranks.  20 "shots" represents all four barrels operating with ideal black powder mixtures and top quality ammunition, so all of the ammunition reaches the target at the correct trajectory and velocity.  Modelling this with scatter dice and templates would be much too difficult, so ballistics skill and artillery dice are used instead.

 

2) Maybe heat is an issue.  Fewer shots could mean that too much black powder was used previously, causing one or more barrels to overheat and miss out on shooting.  This sort of edges in on Misfire territory, but is a unique problem for rapid-fire machinery.

3) Maybe it's the efficiency factor of the crew.  There doesn't seem to be a repeater mechanism on the model, so the crew needs to have a pretty good pipeline set up in order to fire 20 shots on 4 barrels.  If 20 shots worth of powder and ammo aren't within arm's reach, the pipeline will halt and they'll need to set up for the next one.



#18 Oridur

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 05:38 AM

 It is basically a large shot gun.  They are not rifled, but smooth-bore small cannon shooting basically grape-shot.  Depending on a lot o factors, the shot will have a wide pattern, some times you get more hits, some times you don't.  :2guns:



#19 Gotrong Gudmundsson

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 08:20 AM

Just see the dicerolling as a part of the rolls for hitting. In the fluff it fires the same amount of bullets, but countless other factors play in. Perhaps the Engineer is aiming poorly, there's imaginary obstacles on the battlefield between it and the opponent, perhaps the enemy have proper protection, or just anything really.



#20 Volsh

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 08:38 PM

Just see the dicerolling as a part of the rolls for hitting. In the fluff it fires the same amount of bullets, but countless other factors play in. Perhaps the Engineer is aiming poorly, there's imaginary obstacles on the battlefield between it and the opponent, perhaps the enemy have proper protection, or just anything really.

The skill of the engineer, obstacles on the battlefield, and protection of the enemy are all accounted for by the roll to hit or by the armor/ward save.  I'm not trying to argue that the rule doesn't work out for a fairly good but balanced war machine or that it should be changed.  It's just that it doesn't really make sense with the fluff.  







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