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3000Pt For Brawler Bash

3000 bugman tournament

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#1 landonelf

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 03:42 PM

Here is my list. The list is locked, so i can't change it, however I would like some feedback on areas of weakness or suggestions on how to maximize this list's potential. The tournament will be about 100 players and is no-holds-barred. I expect plenty of cheese.

 

Heroes-600

 

Joseph Bugman (in quarrelers)

-General

 

Thane (in hammerers)

-BSB

-Shield

-MRo Grungi

 

Runesmith (in quarrelers)

-Spellbreaker

-Shield

-Rune of Stone

 

Runesmith (in ironbreakers)

-Spellbreaker x2

-Shield

-Rune of Stone

 

Master Engineer

-Pistol

 

Core-818

 

34 Longbeards

-Standard

-Old Guard

-Rune of Stoicism

-Rune of Sanctuary

 

18 Quarrelers

-Standard

-Veteran

 

Special- 1414

 

28 Hammerers

-Full Command

 

23 Ironbreakers

-Standard

-Ironbeard

-Rune of Stoicism

 

Cannon

 

Cannon

-Rune of Forging

-Rune of Burning

 

Grudgethrower

-Rune of Accuracy

 

Gyrocopter

 

Gyrocopter

 

Gyrcopter

 

Rare-165

 

Flame Cannon

-Rune of Forging

 

 

 

Bugman deploys in quarrelers (ignoring scout) and provides them with immunity to Terror/Fear and stubborn most of the time via his Bugmans Brew rule. He can also heal the runesmith if necessary. Otherwise he is just a token LD10 general that helps quarrelers reliably protect warmachines. (he can also take out ethereal with his magic axe)

 

All the blocks should be stubborn and all my warmachines reroll misfires except the GT, which has a fairly soft misfire chart.

 

Thoughts?

 



#2 Swordthain

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 06:49 PM

Your units tend to be a bit on the small side. Your first Cannon should have a RoForging. I don't know why you don't have Musicians in three of your units. They're too handy not to spend 10 points on. Just having the option of a swift reform for a unit is worth those points.



#3 landonelf

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 08:16 PM

Thanks for the suggestions, thought I do have reasons for my madness. Let me address each of your concerns.

 

1) Why a naked cannon?

 

 A third forging rune would cost me at least 40pts (assuming rune of stalwart). I elected to purchase a Master Engineer instead, as the cost difference is only 30pts, and he can contribute entrenchment, chaff hunting, and can even swtitch over to the GT if the cannon is taken out.

 

2) Unit Sizing

 

Quarrelers will be at 20 models with characters and are merely a warmachine guard/character bunker. They rarely see combat, and so I elected to not beef them up to terribly much.

 

Ironbreakers- I use to run them 28 but these guys are so difficult to kill, the extra bodies ended up going to waste. With a runesmith, i run them 6x4 and they are my anvil. I have never had them completely wiped out.

 

Hammerers/Longbeards- Both of these units are relatively large. I don't think anyone would consider 28 or 34 models of elite infantry small.

 

3) Musicians

 

With dwarfs I find these guys hard to justify. My shooters cannot benefit from the free reform, and i universally have LD10, so the rally bonus is wasted. Furthermore, my shooting forces my opponents to come to me head on, so 95% of my battles are giving/receiving forward charges.

 

 Also, winning ties isn't really critical. I'm stubborn on 10 (usually rerollable). I do agree musicians are usually the most useful command you can buy, but not on dwarfs. Not in this book.

 

 



#4 Gyro Fleet Commander

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 09:20 PM

Agree on keeping a naked Cannon, it is good for BoTWD and DP's with 2++ against flaming. With the Engineer agree no need for forging and also keeps the cost down if you do end up losing it.



#5 TaxiForBiggins

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 10:27 PM

Well, you could put forging on the cannon and drop the fc for a naked OG, gaining 20 points and more reliable killing potential :)

If bugman never sees combat as you intend, is he worth it? You aren't taking his rangers, the quarrellers shouldn't need stubborn, and it isn't overly useful being able to heal 2W models. 2cents.

#6 landonelf

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 12:55 AM

The flame cannon is necessary for massed infantry and monstrous infantry. I have the cannons for highly armored targets. The organ gun would be a little redundant in this list. Im also of the opinion that cannons are better than organ guns altogether, but that is an argument for elsewhere.

Bugman is fantastic for his points. He has four S5 attacks with AP on top of his other abilities. Yes he hides alot of the game, but he makes my quarrelers threatening enough to keep most anything away from my warmachines.

In hindsight, another warmachine may have been more useful, but who wants a runesmith as there general? Thats lame! ;)

#7 TaxiForBiggins

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 10:47 AM

yes, cannons are better in my opinion too. Just not flame cannons in all-comers :)

 

If you want to run bugman then cool. I'm just saying it doesn't seem like the most optimal usage of points, is all



#8 landonelf

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 03:36 PM

Your probably right. Lets hope it doesn't come back to bite me. At least he will make for some interesting games!! Rolling to see how drunk my quarrelers are is always hilarious.

 

Interesting that you find that Flame Cannons are not good in all-comers lists though. They excel killing monstrous infantry, but they also do wonders on massed regular infantry as well. Heck, even scouts fear them as they cause a mandatory panic test.



#9 Swordthain

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 04:07 PM

I think they do alright in all-comers lists, but you have to compare them to Cannons (which are good at what they do, a tactical capability that Dwarf armies typically struggle without) and Organ Guns (which are hard to argue with in their many tactical roles). A Flame Cannon can have trouble hitting small units, and against massed infantry, its ability to cut swathes through such units can be redundant with Dwarf combat prowess. I think I will generally take one just because there is so much monstrous infantry in my meta, but it really just depends, I guess.



#10 Nihmwit

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 06:13 AM

I'm with Taxi on this one; you're not making ANY use of Bugman's abilities.  Personally I'd just take a Thane on an oath stone with Master Rune of Gromril, a great weapon, and 3x runes of warding.  He's about the same price and makes those Ironbreakers TRUELY an anvil.



#11 landonelf

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 03:42 PM

I'm with Taxi on this one; you're not making ANY use of Bugman's abilities.  Personally I'd just take a Thane on an oath stone with Master Rune of Gromril, a great weapon, and 3x runes of warding.  He's about the same price and makes those Ironbreakers TRUELY an anvil.

 

I've ran that build before, and while its a good build, its pricy and ironbreakers don't really need the help. I'm fresh off a game vs a SUPER hard vamp list and the ironbreakers survived 5 turns of combat vs a Black Coach and some hexwraiths. Ironbreakers with stoicism are already truly an anvil, and better yet, a smaller block is relatively cheap (for dwarfs). No need to fatten the pot with unecessary characters.

 

Let me clarify my goals. I need two things to happen with my about 170pts (and a nearly full special). I need a leadership 10 general and I need my quarrelers to be stubborn. We normally pay about 100pts for those two things (Thane and Stoicism)

 

So I see it as Im just paying a 65pt tax for Bugmans equipment and special abilities. (which is a heck of a deal even before you factor in his healing). Lets list them

 

2x Rune of Cleaving

Rune of Fury

Crossbow (with BS5!)

Shield

Unit-wide Immunity to Fear/Terror

 

I know he is not elite-level character stuff, but thats not his job. His job is to make my unit of quarrelers into baby hammerers and provide better leadership army-wide. He does this well, and his extra stuff is just icing on the cake.







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