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Experience With, And Uses For The New Flame Cannon?

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#1 guardian angel

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 09:11 AM

I'm interested to know what peoples opinions are, and experiences with using the new Flame Cannon? I'm planning on running a naked one for a while to see how it does as it could be devastating! A direct hit on an infantry unit would be devastating, even on monstrous cavalry, monstrous infantry etc. it could hit very hard due to it's d3 wound potential.

 

I see it as a bit of a multipurpose tool/threat. Plus it would just be fun to launch sheets of flame at people ;)



#2 Murphey

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 01:20 PM

The flame cannon is back to being awesome. By giving the cannon back it's range, you can safely put infantry in front of it to guard it. All casualties force panic checks, so it is a fantastic way to throw chaos into your enemy's lines. At S5, flaming, d3wounds it will likely destroy whatever it touches.

Keep in mind that there are two modes for firing.

In normal mode, you start with the template touching the cannon. That means you cannot guard it. It also does not have the -1 on the misfire chart in this mode (which puts it at 11% chance to blow up). Effective range for this mode is only 19" so it reduces it down to close quarters combat.

In supercharged mode, however, effective range is increased to 31" and you can now place the template anywhere up to 12" before rolling the arty die. In this mode you can potentially hit the enemy on turn 1. The downside is that you have -1 to your misfire roll (sitting at 17% chance to blow up which is essentially once per game)

I think the default should be to take this with a rune of forging in competitive environments and have it sit behind a
unit. With forging, you are only at a 5% chance to blow up firing in supercharged mode the whole game, and are forcing panic checks every time it kills someone.

#3 stuntyogre

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 02:14 PM

I've used it twice so far. Versus VC it got screamed off the table after missing it's first shot at some crypt horrors. Vs a Grimgor list it was MVP, killed I think it was almost 20 black orcs in two shots and 8 savage big uns in a third, got charged O&G turn 3 but I didn't care by that point, it probably won me the game.



#4 landonelf

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 04:54 PM

I always take one wtih a rune of forging. I have been known to take 2 on occasion as well. They are excellent for their costs, and since they are rare, they don't eat up valuable special points. They act as a detterent to anything from massed cheap infantry to monstrous infantry deathstars, and their range can quite often surpise you (and your opponent!)

 

The only catch is that you will almost always use the Supercharged Shot, so you MUST take a rune forging.

 

Without the near-mandatory rune of forging on the Flame Cannon, every supercharged misfire has a 83% chance of disabling it for 2 turns (and a 50% chance of blowing it up!)



#5 Ragnavald Frostpeak

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 07:51 PM

So all the flame cannon made the last 10 years or so are fairly big models and as such you have to obey space limitations and one inch rule etc. back in the 80s though the had that tiny flame cannon. Is it almost cheating to use it as a flame cannon since you could conceivably use it better in terms of squeezing it in?

#6 Wendersnaven

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 08:03 PM

Versus VC it got screamed off the table after missing it's first shot at some crypt horrors.

 

Sounds like you played a game similar to my last encounter with VC....

 

+1 Murphey/Land on forging. It was meant to be.

 

@Ragnavald: At least it isn't a big as some skaven war machines. I usually play with bases on the war machine, so it merely fills the same base that my little old cannon does.

 

:detective:

 

What about taking a single flame cannon, alongside a single O.G.?  Does anyone think they would support each other well in a battery formation, maybe a dart or two of slayers guarding?  I'm going to try this out next game I get, cause I got a feeling they could be the new beans and rice of my artillery.



#7 stuntyogre

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 08:19 PM

What about taking a single flame cannon, alongside a single O.G.?  Does anyone think they would support each other well in a battery formation, maybe a dart or two of slayers guarding?  I'm going to try this out next game I get, cause I got a feeling they could be the new beans and rice of my artillery.

 

I tried that exact combo in the O&G game, they did work well, the OG targeted things like manglers chariots and later orc units that the FC can't damage well, and the FC hit the big blocks. As nice as the new organ guns are they don't shred large units quite as efficiently as a template can. Will be trying it again with cannon support.



#8 Paul.F

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 10:39 PM

I have used it twice and had mix results. I used it once vs lizardmen and I got 2 good shots off on blocks of saurus warriors. That pretty much melted them. The second time i used it i could not hit anything with it. Shooting it is a bit tricky. In general my new opinion on selecting a range to shoot at is put the dang thing as close as you can to the enemy and roll. In the second game i tryed to hard to get the perfect shot like i did in the first and kept rolling short. Seems better to get at least a few hits with the tail and maybe over shoot a bit rather then risk hitting nothing at all by going short.



#9 Montegue

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 02:51 AM

I find it's fantastic against busses - especially Skaven. You're generally shooting forward, which makes it hard to devastate a horde unless you really nail them. S5 is so key. It destroys t3 units and presents a serious risk to t4.

#10 guardian angel

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 12:11 PM

So I can now happily say that I have tried this baby out and I like it a lot! I took it with a Rune of forging as advised on here, and in a game against my mates VC's it did great. It helped kill a vargulf, killed a spirit host, killed some wolves and almost got a flank shot in on a GG deathstar (but was thwarted by my own unit being just in the way..... boo :cry:).

 

It has great range and the d3 wounds is excellent as it makes it a real threat against a lot of stuff. I do see how important forging is now though as most of my shots were supercharged, so forging makes shooting it that much safer.

 

I'm sold :yes



#11 Ok Okri

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 01:38 PM

I've only had it out once, but it did a great job. My current 2.5k list has 2 cannons, an organ gun, and a flame cannon. The cannons obviously handle big gribblies, and the OG and FC take on units and hunters. I found the FC was also useful against hordes if you could get an oblique shot down the line. I'm not sure whether the FC or a second OG are better in my list, but need to do more testing. Both did very well in my last game.

I used the FC without forging and was lucky enough to not missfire. With double cannons in my list I need to add a stalwart rune to satisfy the rule of pride, which makes it expensive to add forging onto the FC. However, It's such an important (and expensive) piece of kit that I'm considering going this way.

#12 Foe-Hammer

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 05:37 PM

I've used it against both Dark Elves and Warriors of Chaos with devastating results.  It tares through Elves and T3 troops, as well as heavily armored T4 troops.  Put a Rune of Penetrating on it and you have a nice S6 template that can cause some serious damage.   :animier:



#13 Grumpy Runelord

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 07:17 PM

The flame cannon is back to being awesome. By giving the cannon back it's range, you can safely put infantry in front of it to guard it. All casualties force panic checks, so it is a fantastic way to throw chaos into your enemy's lines. At S5, flaming, d3wounds it will likely destroy whatever it touches.
 

 

 

 

I tried this againt WoC. I placed 20 Thunderers in front of the Flame Cannon. During shooting I was told I could not fire at his riders because the Thunderers were blocking Line of Sight for the Flame Cannon. 
I spoke my mind - telling him that the Flame Cannon could shoot over his short friend, but since I could not see the point on the ground were I was aiming I could not fire. 

How does this work? 



#14 landonelf

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 08:31 PM

 

The flame cannon is back to being awesome. By giving the cannon back it's range, you can safely put infantry in front of it to guard it. All casualties force panic checks, so it is a fantastic way to throw chaos into your enemy's lines. At S5, flaming, d3wounds it will likely destroy whatever it touches.
 

 

 

 

I tried this againt WoC. I placed 20 Thunderers in front of the Flame Cannon. During shooting I was told I could not fire at his riders because the Thunderers were blocking Line of Sight for the Flame Cannon. 
I spoke my mind - telling him that the Flame Cannon could shoot over his short friend, but since I could not see the point on the ground were I was aiming I could not fire. 

How does this work? 

 

 

If you are using an actual GW flame cannon, then it should have NO trouble seeing over the short dwarfs. Its even pitched at an angle to help it. Remember, you measure from the muzzle of the cannon. I have played in both a casual and tournament setting with the flame cannon and have NEVER had anyone suggest that it could not see over my troops.

 

The old flame cannon could not shoot over troops because you are not allowed to make a shot that risks hitting friendlies, and perhaps this is the argument your friend is trying to make. But now with the supercharged flame shot, you should have more than enough clearance and thus be able to legally shoot over friendly units.



#15 Murphey

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 08:54 PM

Exactly! Your opponent was only trying to confuse the issue because he didn't want his guys to die by fire.

Next time, have them walk around and see from your side. Also, this is not a cannonball or stone thrower. You do not need to see the ground, only to place the template without hitting your own troops and extend from there.

#16 Foe-Hammer

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:18 PM

Also, this is not a cannonball or stone thrower. You do not need to see the ground, only to place the template without hitting your own troops and extend from there.

 

Another reason to use this beauty.... it's back to being awesome, and then some!  



#17 TaxiForBiggins

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 10:26 PM

I think you can do it but it really annoys me. It's not like a catapult, you shoot a fireball straight out. I'm not shooting that through my troops, it's as silly as swift-reforming into a building... Legal but I can't bring myself to do it :)

#18 Marauder guy

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 07:34 AM

In a 1000pt list what would you guys rather have an Fc or an Og (specifically against O and G's)

#19 Murphey

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 12:52 PM

With their low leadership, low armor saves, and tendency to mass up, I would actually seriously consider a FC to an OG. The OG is awesome, however. It really comes down to what you would normally expect from said O&G player.



#20 landonelf

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 04:20 PM

In a 1000pt list what would you guys rather have an Fc or an Og (specifically against O and G's)

 

 

Flame Cannon all the way. O&G lists frequently take large units of cheap infantry with minimal armor. Yes the Organ Gun can kill Pump Wagons and Wolf Chariots in one shot, but a Flame Cannon can decimate blocks of Black Orcs, Savage Orcs, and Night Goblins.

 

Cannons and Flame Cannons are necessities, while the Organ Gun is more of a luxury. At least IMHO







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