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Organ Gun, The Rune Of Accuracy, And An Engineer

organ gun rune of accuracy

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#1 Stonebreaker

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 01:13 AM

Sorry if this came up before.

The Organ Gun.

Tell me if I'm getting this right.

All the hits generated by the artillery dice use the crews BS.

And if I stick a master engineer on the organ gun it uses his BS.

Add the Rune of Accuracy and I'll need, effectively, a 2+ to hit at short range and a +3 at long range. 

Am I interrupting this correctly and if so is it worth the points?

Thanks

Stonebreaker

 


Edited by Stonebreaker, 18 March 2014 - 01:14 AM.


#2 pa11ad1n

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 01:24 AM

Your interpretation is correct.

 

Jury is still out on whether it is worth it.  My gut says no.

 

edit:  to be fair to the engineer he does bring an artillery die reroll and entrenchment (which is better than the ro disguise)


Edited by pa11ad1n, 18 March 2014 - 01:27 AM.


#3 dadieau

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 03:59 AM

And oh baby S6, Armor Piercing, BS 3 (or 2), with rerolls on all misfires of 2 artillery dice at 30" range and I am a happy camper! Finally something that will trash Chaos Warriors and Knights of all types. Let's not forget monsters, warmachines, fliers, swarms, heros and anything else that isn't T8 or better.



#4 pa11ad1n

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 04:06 AM

Remember the 50 point limit on runes.



#5 Stonebreaker

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 04:43 AM

Remember the 50 point limit on runes.

It's under the limit for runes. It's the Master Engineer that really put's it over the top. At 215pts I have to ask "Is it going to pay for it self"

 

And oh baby S6, Armor Piercing, BS 3 (or 2), with rerolls on all misfires of 2 artillery dice at 30" range and I am a happy camper! Finally something that will trash Chaos Warriors and Knights of all types. Let's not forget monsters, warmachines, fliers, swarms, heros and anything else that isn't T8 or better.

That was what I was thinking. Deployment and protecting it will be the key.

 

If any one tries this I would love to hear haw it did.

Stonebreaker



#6 Zidane_blade

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 07:38 AM

How do you imbue it with strength 6 AND re-roll missfires? RoPenetrating and RoForging is 65 pts in total. The point limit is 50.



#7 Galdust

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 08:21 AM

You don't need the rune of forging, as the master engineer let's you re-roll.

#8 Zidane_blade

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 09:04 AM

He lets you re-roll one artillery dice. Not both.

And I know it doesnt say, but im pretty sure the re-roll isnt against a missfire. Thats kinda what makes the RoForging special. 



#9 pa11ad1n

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:59 AM

 

Remember the 50 point limit on runes.

It's under the limit for runes. It's the Master Engineer that really put's it over the top. At 215pts I have to ask "Is it going to pay for it self. 

 

 

 That was aimed at the guy sticking ro penetration on it.



#10 Lynn

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 11:48 AM

Organ gun base S5 AP 5+ long range.

Misfires 2.78% has the -1 to hit 27.78% (excluding the misfire result)

So a total of 29.56% of "problems".

 

Ro forging changes Misfire rate to 0.08%.

-1 result 5.4% (some of the misfires will change into this result hence its higher than 4.63%)

So a total of 5.48% of "problems".

 

Engineer can re-roll only a single dice.

Misfire result 0.46%

-1 Result 6.95% (Allot of the misfires are re-rolled into a -1 to hit and a few remain misfire)

So a total of 7.41% of "problems".

 

Now for destructive power. Strength bonuses add 1/6 wound chance but only against a certain combo of toughness foes. (T3 does not care if its 5 or 6)

But they also have a chance of decreasing enemy armour saves by 1/6th but only for armour of 4+.

Hit chances add a 1/6 per hit boost against everything always up to the point of 2+.

More hit chance does negate cover boosts. Considering this it means there are only a few situations where the Strength bonus out does the accuracy (4+ armour 4+ Toughness) We now need to consider that without forging the 29.56% of "I Swear too much" would reduce the effectiveness of the STR boost. So when pen rune is used we must always add a engineer or we might as well just do accuracy with forging for the same power but more stable performance.

 

=> Base organ gun 120 points 29.56% of "problems".

=> Accuracy + forging 170 points +1/6th kills 5.48% "problems".

=> Engineer 190 points +1/6th 7.41% of "problems".

- 70 of these points are spend in heroes so good for point reallocation.

- Note the engineer does provide entrench but in all honesty its only a point denial or redirector. Entrench can be ignored as other cannons won't care and most CC units do not worry about the -1 to hit.

=> Pen Engineer 230 +3/6th 7.41% of "problems".

- The most destructive combo save for one other. But its situation is limited against some enemy's (elfs, demons with ward save etc)

=> Accuracy Engineer 215 points +2/6th 7.41% of "problems". Works against everything.

=> The last upgrade is grimm. He is a 165 engineer that grants +2/6th and works amazingly well with pen rune or accuracy for a 3+ or 2+ long range shot at S6 or S5. While he does cost allot he can also provide his own weapons fire to the fray. The issue is his limited range I would love him more if it was 24-30" and 1 shot. Then again once close he does rock the joint.

 

Anyway from all of this we notice that pen rune has a big situational issue. The most stable set up is accuracy + forging. Engineers are best used in a accuracy only set up unless you know who you'll face.

 

!!!A good reason to use a engineer is to reallocate rare points to hero. If you normally bring a organ with accuracy and forging. But you see you have between 90-115 points left for Rare. You can take an engineer and use the 50 opened rare points to buy a flame cannon!!!


Edited by Lynn, 18 March 2014 - 11:50 AM.


#11 Rune of Might

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 01:01 PM

My organ guns pay for them selves every time and I only have 2in my list with a flame cannon. No other shooting and I still dominate.

#12 kgkid

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 01:31 PM

I tried OG+Accuracy+Master Engineer against tournament ready, but not heavily optimized VC army.

 

Master Engineer was my general, he had RoStone+Shielding (I think), GW and a Pistol.

 

The list had a single Canon with forging and burning, 12 Thunderers with Musician, Champion with BoP and shields to guard machines and the rest had vanguard.

 

The OG was entrenched. It killed 3 flying MI Vampires before they came to him and a few dire wolves. It returned its points, and survived the game, so I was satisfied.

 

The list did quite well, better then expected and it had problems my opponent failed to utilize. If I was to repair those I'd be facing serious problems finding points. I am not sure if OG could stay in the list, but I would like to make room fr it. Effective BS5 is quite good.



#13 Dorack

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 01:50 PM

I think an unruned OG with ME hits the sweet spot between cost and effectiveness. Also helps you keep a non-magical warmachine that is crucial against some foes...

#14 Lynn

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 03:13 PM

I think an unruned OG with ME hits the sweet spot between cost and effectiveness. Also helps you keep a non-magical warmachine that is crucial against some foes...

 

What is this non magical issue I keep hearing.

So far I saw no danger in being magical. I did off course when we consider flaming attacks.

Could you grant me your wisdom?



#15 pa11ad1n

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 03:53 PM

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#16 BLOOD AXE

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 04:28 PM

My organ guns pay for them selves every time and I only have 2in my list with a flame cannon. No other shooting and I still dominate.

 

 

I agree.

 

Id much rather have two Organ Guns than one runed up Organ Gun with an Engineer. Two targets are harder to take out with war machine hunters ,or counter-fire, and spreads the risk if you get an unlucky roll.



#17 Dorack

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 05:36 PM

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This is prime culprit, but I think there are other units/ items to watch out for.

#18 Rommel44

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 06:13 PM

Agreed, more is better then 1x Runed-Up War-Machine in my opinion. Currently run 2x Organ Guns, both with the Rune of Accuracy, one with Fire, and a Cannon w/Rune of Forging and Fire at 3,000 points which is the norm for me, and thats all I have needed as I also have 3x Gyro's zipping around, so I am pretty covered.

 

Also used to run quarrelers, however I'm debating on dropping them for some more melee troops, thoughts?



#19 Thrundorin

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 09:02 PM

Also used to run quarrelers, however I'm debating on dropping them for some more melee troops, thoughts?


Now quarrellers have heavy armour, give them great weapons and call them auxilliary melee units and shields as auxilliary HWS blocks. May as well soften the enemy up. You cant shoot into a melee but you can pile in the flank.





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