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Master Engineer Question

engineer organ gun stand and shoot

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#1 Gryx

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 12:27 AM

Hello all, I'm a bit new to the boards and have a tactics question. I was an Empire player in 7th edition and decided to start up a Dwarf army for my jump back into 8th. Now that the introduction is out of the way, I have a quick question about master engineers, ranged units, and artillery.

 

I love the shield wall and dwarf crafted special rules and have been trying to think of ways to let core shooting units take full advantage of both. From what I understand, a unit bases it's stand and shoot range off of the shortest weapon that is being fired in the unit. So an engineer with a pistol in a unit of quarrelers will let them stand and shoot as if the enemy was 9in away (short range), regardless of how far away the enemy unit actually is.

 

My question is this: If the master engineer is part of unit of quarrelers (or any ranged unit) and within 3 inches of a warmachine can he use his "Artillery Master" ability while still letting the unit shoot as normal. I completely understand that he will not be allowed to participate in the shooting phase because he used his special rule, but will that prevent the rest of the unit from shooting? Better yet, can the unit still use his 9in range on stand and shoot reactions because the charge response takes place during the opponents movement phase, not your shooting phase. 

 

I can imagining an engineer manning an organ gun while also commanding a large ranged unit of ranged infantry but having to divide his time between the two of them. I think it can provide for an incredible flank defense (albeit at the cost of mobility since he needs to stay within 3in of the gun) while letting the ranged unit get the most out of their two special rules. Also, would he be able to use this ability while his unit is engaged but he is not? That one might be a bit of a stretch but I don't think there's anything specifically against it. If something is in the BRB about any of this I would love to know (still kinda new to 8th).

 

I don't want to be "that rules lawyer guy" but I think its a cool tactic and my group is unsure about the ruling. I would love to hear about what you guys think. 



#2 Folkvar Elfcrusher

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 12:45 AM

You've answered your own question. Because Stand and Shoot reactions are resolved during the movement phase, the Master Engineer will still be able to use his Artillery Master Rule on a war machine within 3" so long as he hasn't fired his own weapon during that phase. Arguing that he can't use his Artillery Master because he took a Stand and Shoot reaction is like saying that a unit can't fire their weapons in the shooting phase because they took a Stand and Shoot reaction earlier in the game.



#3 Gryx

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 12:48 AM

Will the ranged unit still get to shoot normally in their own shooting phase even though the engineer cannot shoot his weapon? Or is there something saying that if one model in the unit cant shoot nobody can shoot. Just typing it sounds silly, but I just want to be sure.



#4 Lynn

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 10:34 AM

The unit can still shoot. He himself can't.


Edited by Lynn, 26 February 2014 - 10:35 AM.


#5 Furstenburg

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 10:38 AM

You've answered your own question. Because Stand and Shoot reactions are resolved during the movement phase, the Master Engineer will still be able to use his Artillery Master Rule on a war machine within 3" so long as he hasn't fired his own weapon during that phase. Arguing that he can't use his Artillery Master because he took a Stand and Shoot reaction is like saying that a unit can't fire their weapons in the shooting phase because they took a Stand and Shoot reaction earlier in the game.

 

It would also be like saying that thunderers cant stand and shoot as they moved their previous turn...Or can't move as they did a stand and shoot in opponents turn



#6 Kevril Stonescream

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 10:50 AM

..that is actually a really nice idea. I might have to try that for my next game. Give both him some more protection and unit a bit more fighting power all the while looking after the artillery. Does mean he can't dance around as much to block charges but with good deployment I think this is great.

#7 Griegsson

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 01:20 PM

Yes - this tactic will work.  It will make him a bit more vulnerable to being taken out in close combat though.



#8 kgkid

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 01:25 PM

This might work, but...

 

Be careful that he has to help the machine BEFORE the unit shoots, or he has to be with NO missile weapon of his own.

 

If the unit shoots, all the models in range have to do it, and then he'd could not help the machine.

 

Other than that, I see no rule to prohibit that behavior. 

 

S&S is answered by most here, no need for me to repeat what they said.


Edited by kgkid, 26 February 2014 - 01:26 PM.


#9 Gryx

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 08:02 PM

Thanks for all the responses! I'll try it out in some 1500pt games and see how the tactic fairs up.



#10 landonelf

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 08:19 PM

So an engineer with a pistol in a unit of quarrelers will let them stand and shoot as if the enemy was 9in away (short range), regardless of how far away the enemy unit actually is.

 

 

 

Dwarven Pistols are 12" range not 9". But yes your theory would work. Bunkering master engineers in quarrelers and thunderers is an old trick used by many of us for years.

 

Combined with the new dwarf crafted special rule, your stand and shoots will usually hit on 4's. It can be quite effective.



#11 Wendersnaven

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 03:41 AM

As a former Empire, welcome Gryx. And welcome to LD 9 & 10.

 

You'll do well thinking outside the box, I think. :yes  May your feet always be shod.







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