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Warmachines.........which One To Take?

warmachines boltthrower organ gun cannon grudge thrower flame cannon

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#1 dlust1

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 07:47 AM

So i would like to start off by saying that i am really new to warhammer fanasy (first army and 0 games played so far)

 

I have seen a bunch of games played by friends and on youtube and other wargaming sites, but would like fellow gamers opinions on which warmachines i should be purchasing?

 

i have a cannon from the battle for skull pass set i picked up stupidly cheap and 2 more from battle boxes that i can make into either cannons or organ guns, but now that i have the new book i'm looking at the price for boltthrowers and they seem really good for dmg vs cost, and i would like your options on if they are worth it or if i should opt for other choices?



#2 Sig650

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 08:28 AM

I'm not terribly experienced myself but I have to say that with this new book I don't think anyone could really go wrong with having 1 of each war machine on the shelf. If you're going to snag a bolt thrower i'd try to pick it up second hand, unless having new stuff is your perogative.

After seeing the reactions to the new war machine setup, it seems that the general consensus is that bolt throwers are sub-optimal. Seeing as how I have one, i'll try it when I get the chance and if the majority of my games prove that the general consensus is right I may just put it on the shelf for a while. At 15 points less than the High Elf option (and being down 1 BS) iirc, I don't really see the issue but then again, that could be my lack of experience talking. With a Rune of Seeking (+1 to-hit against Flying) you're right at that 70 point threshold with the High Elf Ballista. There are other runes that cost a bit more but confer a +1 to-hit in general though.

I know that in the past, and especially in my former local group/meta, bolt throwers seemed to be the devil when dealing with things like knight buses or other bricks of cavalry. I know a cannon has more of a chance to rake across all the ranks, do damage to more targets, etc. But, it is 1) a more expensive proposition 2) a bigger target because of its capability and point value. I was honestly a bit shocked at how nasty a bolt thrower was back then. Overall, our artillery took a hit and I don't know that the 10 point increase and the loss of the engineer from the last book make is AS bad as some people think when you consider a lot of the changes to WM's elsewhere in our book (i.e. no more engineer upgrades and overall points increases). If the rest of our WM's had stayed the same and the BT was the only thing to change I would probably argue against it.

The only thing that really rubs me the wrong way with a bolt thrower + rune of seeking is that 5 rangers can be had for the same points. That's not a bad bit o' chaff! Not to mention, they aren't too shabby at wrangling enemy war machines.



#3 FullFatMayo

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 08:38 AM

If I were you I would just start playing games with your current models but using rules of others to see which ones you like. Other than that you can never go wrong with a cannon. Bolt throwers are more situational as they require rolling to hit on BS3. Flame cannons I think are going to be huge in this edition of the book but haven't played with any yet. Again Grudge throwers are very reliable especially with the right runes (As for which runes ask someone else as I have never used them). Organ guns used to be amazing, not sure whether or not they got nerfed in this book but ask someone who has used them already or start using them yourself.



#4 Kevril Stonescream

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 09:27 AM

Organ guns, need a bit of TLC. Either a master engine or accuracy and maybe forging on them. Expensive but then the wreak havoc on the enemy. Grudge with pen and accuracy is a good all rounder and one if my fave machines. Bolt thrower... Sigh... I used to run one with a master engine for BS5 madness... Now that no longer works and the cost to get back there is high. Slightly hypocritical as the organ hub is more expensive than last book but I think it does have more use. Cannon is always a solid choice if more expensive base cost now days. And flame cannon, that I haven't used hut sounds great fun.

Each one has its own set of targets in mind from taking out big monsters to splatting hordes. Depending on playvstyle and meta a mix can be good or pick the ones you like. After all we are here to have fun. Proxying is a great way to try out things before you sink money into them so try em out and see what the enemy hates most.

#5 Marilith

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 11:52 AM

I think the answer depends on how many points you are playing.
As you are new, my guess is you will probably play 1000 / 1500 and building to 2000 point armies.

The new book gives us lots of directions to go with our list building. My second guess is you will be going for a mix of warmachines and blocks of units.
Then later on you can start with vanguarding lists, gunlines and such.

This would be my guideline (this is not set in stone but based on my thoughts explained above):

- First : Dwarf cannon seems mandatory, STR 10 hit/multiple wounds at long range, why would you not take that.
- Second : you will need something to take down big units, organ gun or grudge thrower.
- Third : Flame canon. Its hurts lots, causes multiple wounds and causes panic. I think this is a perfect 3rd machine.

I would stay away from the Bolt Thrower.

How these would fit in your list, what runes to take and what not is something I could spend alot of words on, but that wasnt your question so I'll stay away from that.

Hope this helps.
Marilith


Edited by Marilith, 18 February 2014 - 11:54 AM.


#6 The Low King

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 12:35 PM

Bolt throwers got significantly nerfed. They are more expensive and they lost the cheap BS4 engineer they could get.

 

The possibility to increase the accuracy and strength of flame cannons and Organ guns though make them an incredibly attractive option.


Edited by The Low King, 18 February 2014 - 12:35 PM.


#7 dlust1

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 05:13 AM

Thanks for all the advice guys, i think a cannon and organ gun combo is probably what i will use most of the time, and since i already have a ton of the warriors/thunderer/quarrelers units to build i will start with those combos.

 

I play with 4 other guys, that have daemons, lizardmen, skaven, and highelves so it will be fun learning who does what and what i should look out for (like magic on highelves and some of the book spells that target initiative from what I've heard)

 

i still want to try out these bolt throwers though so i will probably do what you guys recommended and proxy them at first as were just a fun based group not tourney players. 

 

I really appreciate all the advice though.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: warmachines, boltthrower, organ gun, cannon, grudge thrower, flame cannon

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