21 replies to this topic

[Boulderfist]

Hello to you all! After hanging around at the bar with some other general I thought it was about time to discuss my army. 
I am going to my first Warhammer tournament ever next month, and I was originally planning on taking the damn rats, but since the new book is comming out I thought it was a good idea to try them out a last time.
 
We are all supposed to bring our army lists, so my opponent is going to see it. And we are playing with the second draft according to ETC restrictions. The reference we are using is https://docs.google....cH8cGFVuf-E/pub
 
Without further explanation where I fail in english grammar, I'll paste in the army list. I would love to get some response and maybe even some few pin-points to how I can improve it.
 

ETC Restrictions Draft 2:
Dwarfs
• Can generate up to 4 Dispel Dice per phase instead of 2
• Anvil of Doom/Grudge Thrower/Cannon/Organ Gun/2nd Bolt Thrower, max 4
• Anvil of Doom/Spelleater Rune/Spellbreaking Rune/Master Rune of Balance, max 2
 

 
Core:
25x Dwarf Warriors                   200 (265)
+ Great Weapons                      50
+ Musician                                   5
+ Standard Bearer                     10
 
29x Dwarf Warriors                   232 (373)
+ Shields                                    29
+ Musician                                    5
+ Standard Bearer                      10
+ Longbeards                             87
+ Banner of Eternal Flame          10
 
10x Thunderers                          140 (140)
 
Lords:
Dwarf Lord                                    145 (251)
+ Shieldbearers                              25
+ Rune of Stone                               5
+ Rune of Resistance                     25
+ Master Rune of Spite                   45
+ Great Weapon                               6
 
Runelord                                       140 (340)
+ Anvil of Doom                             175
+ Rune of Spellbreaking                  25
 
Heroes:
Thane                                             65 (150)
+ BSB                                              25
+ Master Rune of Gromril                25
+ Rune of Cleaving                          20
+ Rune of Luck                                15
 
Dragon Slayer                              50 (75)
+ Rune of Shielding                      25
 
Special:
Canon                                             90 (125)
+ Rune of Forging                           35
 
Grudge Thrower                        80 (155)
+ 2x Rune of Penetrating           50
+ Rune of Accuracy                   25
 
28x Hammerers                          336 (404)
+ Musician                                      6
+ Standard Bearer                        12
Master Rune of Grungni                50
 
Rare:
Organ Gun                                    120 (120)
 
Total 2398
 
 
I am sorry for the format. For some reason the layout got completely changed after I pasted it from Word. Oh well, I hope it's readable.
 
Edit: New version anno 27-01. 

 

I've made some few changes. Although I think I would have been a good idea to add champions, I went for something else. Debating with myself what the purpose of the Organ Gun was, I quickly realized that small chaff units could potentially get a hold of it, pretty quick, if not forcing my to place my lines with open flanks etc. Therefore I decided to add a little Dragon Slayer, not only because this might be the last time I try this version of it, but also because I think he can protect my warmachines and the anvil quite nicely. Any comments? In order to make this happen, I removed a single thunderer and 5 warriors, from the block with GW.

 

I removed the warriors from that particular group, hoping the opponent would charge them faster. I realized that before all my blocks consisted of 30 bodies. So dropping one group down might force the opponent to go in one certain direction.

 

 

I would still love to hear comments. 

Edited by Boulderfist, 27 January 2014 - 07:22 PM.

[Foe-Hammer]

Hello to you all! After hanging around at the bar with some other general I thought it was about time to discuss my army. 

I am going to my first Warhammer tournament ever next month, and I was originally planning on taking the damn rats, but since the new book is comming out I thought it was a good idea to try them out a last time.

 

We are all supposed to bring our army lists, so my opponent is going to see it. And we are playing with the second draft according to ETC restrictions. The reference we are using is https://docs.google....cH8cGFVuf-E/pub

 

Without further explanation where I fail in english grammar, I'll paste in the army list. I would love to get some response and maybe even some few pin-points to how I can improve it.

 

ETC Restrictions Draft 2:

Dwarfs

• Can generate up to 4 Dispel Dice per phase instead of 2

• Anvil of Doom/Grudge Thrower/Cannon/Organ Gun/2nd Bolt Thrower, max 4

• Anvil of Doom/Spelleater Rune/Spellbreaking Rune/Master Rune of Balance, max 2

 

 

Core:

30x Dwarf Warriors                   240 (255)
+ Musician                                    5
+ Standard Bearer                      10

 

29x Dwarf Warriors                   232 (402)
+ Great Weapon                         58
+ Musician                                    5
+ Standard Bearer                      10
+ Longbeards                             87
+ Banner of Eternal Flame          10

 

13x Thunderers                          182 (182)

 

Lords:

Dwarf Lord                                 145 (245)
+ Shieldbearers                           25
+ Rune of Stone                            5
+ Rune of Resistance                  25
+ Master Rune of Spite                45

 

Runelord                                    140 (340)
+ Anvil of Doom                          175
+ Rune of Spellbreaking             25

 

Heroes:

Thane                                         65 (150)
+ BSB                                          25
+ Master Rune of Gromril            25
+ Rune of Cleaving                     20
+ Rune of Luck                           15
 

 

Special:

Canon                                        90 (125)
+ Rune of Forging                      35

 

Grudge Thrower                        80 (155)
+ 2x Rune of Penetrating           50
+ Rune of Accuracy                   25

 

28x Hammerers                          336 (404)
+ Musician                                     6
+ Standard Bearer                       12
Master Rune of Grungni              50

 

Rare:

Organ Gun                                    120 (120)

 

Total 2372

 

 

 

I am sorry for the format. For some reason the layout got completely changed after I pasted it from Word. Oh well, I hope it's readable.

 

Some initial thoughts about the list - I'm at work right now and don't have the army book on me at the moment, so my math may be a little off.  

 

• Since you have the Lord on shieldbearers, consider  great weapon so he can score a few points in combat.

 

• Also, perhaps dropping the Rune of Resistance for the Rune of Preservation would to free up some points as well as keep him safe from killing blows/heroic killing blows.  

 

• This is just a thought, but since you already have the Hammerers with S6 attacks, the Longbeards with great weapons may be a little redundant.  Maybe give the Warrior unit great weapons for S5 instead, and leave the Longbeards at S4 with shield. This will give nothing below a S4 attack from your units, and give you a very solid steadfast unit for the Longbeards that will soak up some wounds.  Dropping three Thunderers down to a unit of 10 may free the points up for that.

[Boulderfist]

Some initial thoughts about the list - I'm at work right now and don't have the army book on me at the moment, so my math may be a little off.  

 

• Since you have the Lord on shieldbearers, consider  great weapon so he can score a few points in combat.

 

• Also, perhaps dropping the Rune of Resistance for the Rune of Preservation would to free up some points as well as keep him safe from killing blows/heroic killing blows.  

 

• This is just a thought, but since you already have the Hammerers with S6 attacks, the Longbeards with great weapons may be a little redundant.  Maybe give the Warrior unit great weapons for S5 instead, and leave the Longbeards at S4 with shield. This will give nothing below a S4 attack from your units, and give you a very solid steadfast unit for the Longbeards that will soak up some wounds.  Dropping three Thunderers down to a unit of 10 may free the points up for that.

 

 

First of all, thanks for commenting on the list!

And yeah, I've forgotten all about the great weapon for the Lord, as it was the original plan.

 

Since it's my first tournament and the fact that I have under 10 games in total I wouldn't know a lot about the overall army lists. This is why I thought that a 2+ reroll armor save was great. Especially the reroll part, but is a thing like protection from Poisoned Attacks and Killing Blow more important?

 

And overall S4 sounds really nice, I will make the changes and post the edited version.

 

Once again thanks for the comment, and if you get the time to look more in to it. It would be much appreciated. 

[Foe-Hammer]

 

Since it's my first tournament and the fact that I have under 10 games in total I wouldn't know a lot about the overall army lists. This is why I thought that a 2+ reroll armor save was great. Especially the reroll part, but is a thing like protection from Poisoned Attacks and Killing Blow more important?

 

 

I look at it this way - yes, a re-roll on armor saves is great vs low strenth attacks.  But, if you factor in that there are a lot of ways to negate armor saves - high strenth attacks, magic items, spells, etc. - the re-roll on the armor save becomes less effective.  

 

Killing blow can be an issue, but it is situational.  Not every army has a unit or item that bestows killing blow.  However, you don't get an armor save with killing blow, only a ward save, and a 50% chance to save it with the rune of spite (great rune, keep it on your lord).  A 15 point rune that can take killing blow away entirely is effective.

 

At 2400 points, having two lord level characters is a lot of points, and I would suggest just going with one.  Are you expecting to face a lot of magic?  Are you planning on a defensive game (castling in the corner)?  That would help figure out what lord to go with, and it will free up points as well.  

Edited by Foe-Hammer, 22 January 2014 - 11:33 PM.

[cptfluffy]

I will start with, the unit of Long Beards w/ shields cannot use the BoEternal Flame. Their is also NOT a runic equivalent of the flaming banner so sorry :-( The turny rules to restrict the unit sizes hruts a bit, as I would normally try and run them a bit higher (35-38 avg). The turny rules also made the WE a fairly interesting army to look into :-)

 

Edited by cptfluffy, 23 January 2014 - 02:15 AM.

[Foe-Hammer]

I will start with, the unit of Long Beards w/ shields cannot use the BoEternal Flame. Their is also NOT a runic equivalent of the flaming banner so sorry :-(

Good catch.

If you want flaming attacks, you can give your cannon flaming with the Rune of Burning for 5 points, or Rune of Fire on the Thane for 5 points.

[Helblindi]

Just my inexperienced two cents here, but wouldn't it be useful to take champions in for the units that are going to have a character? Unless you plan to accept any challenge with your lord or thane.

[Boulderfist]

 

I look at it this way - yes, a re-roll on armor saves is great vs low strenth attacks.  But, if you factor in that there are a lot of ways to negate armor saves - high strenth attacks, magic items, spells, etc. - the re-roll on the armor save becomes less effective.  

 

Killing blow can be an issue, but it is situational.  Not every army has a unit or item that bestows killing blow.  However, you don't get an armor save with killing blow, only a ward save, and a 50% chance to save it with the rune of spite (great rune, keep it on your lord).  A 15 point rune that can take killing blow away entirely is effective.

 

At 2400 points, having two lord level characters is a lot of points, and I would suggest just going with one.  Are you expecting to face a lot of magic?  Are you planning on a defensive game (castling in the corner)?  That would help figure out what lord to go with, and it will free up points as well.  

 

 

Yeah, good point. I think I'll go ahead and do that!

I see where you are getting at with the two Lords. But since I love the Anvil so much, I thought I wanted that a long. Which basically defends me from magic. Remember it's an upcoming tournament, so I don't know who I'll be facing. At the tournament all the games are battle lines. So I figure I shut down the opponents magic phase, shoot down the big threats and finally move in with full throttle. Therefore I also wanted a Lord, not only does he fit with Hammerers perfectly. He is also a half-immortal killing son of a b****.

 

And yea- I realize I can't keep the flaming banner and I will remove it right away. I am thinking I put it on a war machine. I am just scared I give potential Demon Princes a free 2+ ward from my canons.

 

@Helblindi 

 

I figure that the characters are kitted just for that cause. If there is room in the end, I will probably add in a champion to the unit where the BSB is going. Just in case I need to refuse a challenge. 

[Foe-Hammer]

Yeah, good point. I think I'll go ahead and do that!
I see where you are getting at with the two Lords. But since I love the Anvil so much, I thought I wanted that a long. Which basically defends me from magic. Remember it's an upcoming tournament, so I don't know who I'll be facing. At the tournament all the games are battle lines. So I figure I shut down the opponents magic phase, shoot down the big threats and finally move in with full throttle. Therefore I also wanted a Lord, not only does he fit with Hammerers perfectly. He is also a half-immortal killing son of a b****.

And yea- I realize I can't keep the flaming banner and I will remove it right away. I am thinking I put it on a war machine. I am just scared I give potential Demon Princes a free 2+ ward from my canons.

@Helblindi

I figure that the characters are kitted just for that cause. If there is room in the end, I will probably add in a champion to the unit where the BSB is going. Just in case I need to refuse a challenge.

I'm mad at my anvil at the moment, so hopefully yours behaves itself... may you never roll 1's!

I play a lot of games vs Chaos, so I always free up points for unit champions in my combat units. Definitely saves casualties and keeps the unit steadfast for an extra turn, which can have a big impact on the game.

Post the new list when you get a chance... would be great to see what you come up with!

[Boulderfist]

I have now changed the list to what I think is going to be the final draft. Would love to hear further comments!

[Yorri Damminson]

The only thing that looks a bit weird to me it the runeless Runelord (besides of the spellbreaking rune). Maybe it will work (fingers crossed), but protect this guy well. Without any weapon and/or armour runes he is quite expensive and quite venerable in close combat.

 

Otherwise, looks like a solid list.

[Boulderfist]

The only thing that looks a bit weird to me it the runeless Runelord (besides of the spellbreaking rune). Maybe it will work (fingers crossed), but protect this guy well. Without any weapon and/or armour runes he is quite expensive and quite venerable in close combat.

 

Otherwise, looks like a solid list.

 

I am planning on going for a cornor. Placing the anvil with the runelord in the center. Making it hard for the opponent to get to it. By the way is the anvil placed as a war machine or as a character?

[Boulderfist]

A thing that just hit me.

Would it be worth it to replace the Dragon Slayer with an Engineer to stand between the war machines?

[Montegue]

I place it as a character, since it's a character upgrade.

[Foe-Hammer]

A thing that just hit me.
Would it be worth it to replace the Dragon Slayer with an Engineer to stand between the war machines?

If you do that, you could place the Master Engineer equipped with a brace of pistols in the unit of Thunderers so they can stand and shoot at close range. Keep the unit within 3 inches to use the engineer's re-roll ability on missfires for the Grudge Thrower.

[Boulderfist]

 

A thing that just hit me.
Would it be worth it to replace the Dragon Slayer with an Engineer to stand between the war machines?

If you do that, you could place the Master Engineer equipped with a brace of pistols in the unit of Thunderers so they can stand and shoot at close range. Keep the unit within 3 inches to use the engineer's re-roll ability on missfires for the Grudge Thrower.

 

 

Meaning the entire Thunderer unit can stand and shoot at close range or just the Engineer?

Seems like a somewhat good idea!

[Foe-Hammer]

 

 

Meaning the entire Thunderer unit can stand and shoot at close range or just the Engineer?

Seems like a somewhat good idea!

 

 

The entire unit can stand and shoot at close range.  Stand and shoot range is determined by the lowest ranged weapon in the unit, and a brace of pistols can pretty much always stand and shoot.    

[Boulderfist]

 

The entire unit can stand and shoot at close range.  Stand and shoot range is determined by the lowest ranged weapon in the unit, and a brace of pistols can pretty much always stand and shoot.    

 

 

Awesome! That's a rule I must have overlooked. Thanks for the idea!

[Foe-Hammer]

When is the event?  Let us know how it goes for you!  

[Boulderfist]

The event is in 3 weeks, hopefully I'll get a chance to try out the list before that