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Help Needed With Bugman/anvil/strollaz 2500Pt List

bugman strollaz anvil 2500

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#1 Cuthbo

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 09:42 PM

Hi, I need advice from you experienced Longbeards!

 

I am going to be taking a 2500pt Dwarf army to a small tournament in a month and want to do something different to spook everyone out and have a bit of fun. They will all be expecting a gunline (which I detest playing with). At the same time, it is quite a competitive atmosphere so I wouldn't mind winning a few games! The players are High Elves, Skaven x2 and Chaos Warriors. We're all pretty inexperienced but the few times I have played the Chaos guy he wipes the floor with me. Anyway here is my attempt at a more interesting-to-play list:

 

 

Bugman (155pts) - He seems a bit useless but lets me take 2 Ranger units - this will spook the other players out, right?

 

Runelord with Anvil, shield and Ro Stone (323pts)Helps combat Magic a bit hopefully and lets me do crazy charges.

 

Dragon Slayer 2xRo Speed (60pts) - Protect the Anvil?

Thane BSB with Strollaz's Rune (145pts) - Strollaz the heck out of some units (hope to move up the two GW warriors and Ironbreakers) and shake up deployment. Then move 6. Then charge with Anvil. Is this even possible??

 

29 x Dwarf Warriors Great Weapons (310pts) 

30 x Dwarf Warriors Great Weapons (320pts)

 

19 x Rangers Great Weapons (286pts) These guys are trouble makers and flankers

30 x Longbeard Rangers (350pts) - These guys charge 1st/2nd turn (as long as I don't get 1st turn they can charge, right?)

 

20 x Ironbreakers (284pts) - Hard as nails but small unit. I only have 20 models so kinda have to take only 20.

12 x Miners (142pts) - These guys come out of nowhere in the 2nd/3rd turn and make a rear charge with luck.

 

Cannon Ro Forging (125pts) - For killing the Hellcannon and Hellpit Abomination!

 

Does this list have any hope of winning any games? Is Bugman and a second Ranger unit a pointless luxury? 

 

Really appreciate any help on this!

 

 



#2 Dolgrim Brassbottom

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 11:21 PM

I like your ideas and I think it just needs some triming. you can save money by droping bugmen and the iron breakers and boosting your numbers up. bigger units are better for us since we will be going last and we need numbers to keep the pop in the bat. I like the cannon just add a rune of burning to it. I like gyro copters to chase down broken units because broken units will come back to haunt you if they survive. I would boost up the runelord to help him out and beef up magic defence. I like the challange thane more but I havent tried the strollz rune yet.

Here is what I would bring

 

1 Lord: 448 Pts.   17.9%
1 Hero: 165 Pts.   6.6%
1 Core Unit: 633 Pts.   25.3%
3 Elite Units: 1110 Pts.   44.4%
1 Rare Unit: 140 Pts.   5.6%


Runelord, Shield, Anvil of Doom, 1 x Rune of Shielding, 1 x Rune of Resistance, 1 x Rune of Stone, 1 x Master Rune of Spite, 1 x Rune of Spellbreaking, 1 x Rune of the Furnace - 448 Pts.

Thane, 1 x Rune of Fire, 1 x Master Rune of Gromril, 1 x Master Rune of Challenge, 1 x Rune of Brotherhood, BSB - 165 Pts.

42 Longbeards, Ranger Upgrade, GW, M, S, C, 1 x Rune of Determination - 633 Pts.

40 Miners, M, S, C, Steam Drill - 490 Pts.
40 Miners, M, S, C, Steam Drill - 490 Pts.
Cannon, 1 x Rune of Forging, 1 x Rune of Burning - 130 Pts.

Gyrocopter - 140 Pts.

Total: 2496
 

This will make them "I Swear too much" their pants when you onlu have three drops. the cannon is to kill the big bads the thane goes with the longbeard warriors pick your opponent carefully because there are a few units your longbeards will have issues with but at str 6 there isnt much



#3 Cuthbo

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 09:20 AM

Holy hell!! That is a lot of Miners. I can just imagine the awesome look on my friends' faces when I slap down 3 small units only. Thanks for the help Dolgrim!

 

I am going to have to get a Gyrocopter and model 80 Miners...but this'll be worth it!

 

One question: With these epic 10-wide horde formations, do we waste a lot of dwarfs? If 10 guys at the front go up against a 5 man rank, will it be effective? 

 

 



#4 Komgol

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 01:57 PM

I don't run into 5-wide 20mm guys very often at 2,500.  If it does happen though, 7/10 files are still attacking for 21 total attacks.



#5 Dolgrim Brassbottom

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 03:02 PM

I agree with komgol if you hit someone with a 10 front and they have a 5 you will get 22 attacks (2 for champ) vs their 11 back. and thats if you get them in the front a rear or flank would be even better! This style takes practice but the look on there face is priceless! the steam drill is really good to help get those miners in fast. Is their a thread on this site for ambush tactics? If not we should start one.



#6 Swordthain

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 03:16 PM

I don't think there's an actual thread. My battle reports can serve to start, but I think the idea of ambush lists as a competitive alternative is still fairly new, especially since a lot of Dwarf players don't have the collections to field such a force in the first place. A tactics thread would be a really good idea, I think--at least for those of us who do use ambush lists.

#7 Swordthain

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 03:17 PM

Dolgrim's suggested list looks very solid and would do well.

#8 Cuthbo

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 03:23 PM

Thanks for the help - that really has cleared up the whole 10-man rank thing for me - I always avoided it for some reason. But you're right, most of these guys'll be fielding beefy units. 

 

I just had a thought - don't we need to have at least one unit of Warriors to field a Longbeard Ranger unit? 

 

I'll check out your battle reports Swordthain! 



#9 Swordthain

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 04:52 PM

No, you don't. The FAQ cleared that up for us, fortunately: Units upgraded to Rangers count as Rangers, not as Warriors or Longbeards, which I think makes a lot of sense.

 

Hey, cheers, mate! Hope they help! I find that looking back through them, a lot of the lessons I find myself learning come in two categories: 1) What Not To Do, and 2) Be Patient. If you can discern well when and where to strike with your units, you'll do well. That's been a learning curve for me... a steep learning curve, unfortunately. Practice makes perfect, though. It also helps to know what your units can and cannot handle and what fights they should and should not get into. My biggest mistakes, I think, are playing sloppy in the second half of a game because I assume that my units are invincible by that point and pushing my units to get into combat faster than they should or need to merely because it appears that I have a slight advantage (like the game in which I deployed my Longbeard Rangers behind the Chaos Warriors army but then proceeded to allow them to get into combat with overwhelming force and destroyed, though that was partly due to bad luck, too, as a chariot was able to hold up my horde of Miners for multiple rounds of combat...).



#10 Dolgrim Brassbottom

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 05:03 PM

ok I will do my best to start doing battle reports of my battles. Ive never done one before what is some good software to have for this? I get off vacation on thursday so i will play this weekend and test out my list and paint more of my models, but there are soooo many.



#11 Swordthain

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:31 AM

Awesome! I haven't found any good software, unfortunately. I generally use Microsoft Word to type it up, uploading the pictures to an album here on Bugman's, and inserting the pictures into my post once I've copied and pasted the manuscript in. If you're a little more computer savvy than I am, you might use YouTube. It lets you basically do a slideshow while you comment on each picture. You could then simply post a link to your file in your post.



#12 Cuthbo

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 07:56 AM

Good tips! I just read a few of your ambush reports and I have to say the lists (40 miners x 2, anvil, Longbeard Rangers) look really fun to play with. Great battle reports so far!

 

I was just wondering how on earth we combat scouts? I know for a fact the Elf player will have 1 or 2 Shadow Warriors and the Skaven players will definitely have Gutter Runners (very much the same rule as our Miners). So with the Anvil sitting there on it's own, won't the Shadow Warriors just be able to deploy 12" away and then get into combat by turn 2? 

 

 

 

 



#13 Swordthain

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 01:01 PM

Yes. they will. That is an issue, one which I have not yet really had to deal with much. People don't tend to use Scouts. They like to use fast stuff that hits harder and has a Vanguard move at the beginning. But Chameleon Skins, Gutter Runners, Shadow Warriors, and others all have the potential to ruin your day. It's one of the risks you take with using an ambush list. My solution has been to deploy one of my units of Miners (the smaller one, if I have a smaller unit of the two) behind my opponent's Scouts and use the Rune of Oath and Honour to charge them in before my opponent has the chance to move the Scouts away. That does mean that I have to be that much more careful with my Rangers and other unit of Miners, but I find that this actually works fairly well as I usually have one of my two units of Miners on their own anyway even when they're deployed in my opponent's side of the table. I played a friendly game with a High Elf player about a year back, I think it was, who did that very thing with two units of Shadow Warriors in my backfield. They died swiftly to my Miners' pickaxes! I hadn't caught on yet, so I left them alone and deployed my first unit of Miners when they came on in his half of the table to help my Rangers. He hadn't caught on, either, so wasted all his Shadow Warriors' shots on my Anvil of Doom and it's T10 and 2+ WS vs. shooting attacks (thanks to a RoShielding). The second round he caught on and moved them up in order to charge in and tie up my Anvil of Doom in close combat so I couldn't use it, but I was able to catch on, too, and get my second unit of Miners involved before he could do that, which I'm sure won me the game.



#14 Cuthbo

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 01:12 PM

Thanks for the response (you are like my military advisor - if I win any battles, i'll have to chalk them up to you!). 

 

Just one more thing - as a warmachine/anvil protector - how useful is a Dragon Slayer with a rune of speed and maybe the always strikes first rule? He can't really block their charge can he?



#15 Dolgrim Brassbottom

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 03:17 PM

I've never had an issue with scouts. I use my anvil on them and grapeshot them so if they survive my anvil can kill them in close combat. I'm not saying this couldn't be a problem but I think the gyro, anvil and cannon can deal with this stuff. I'm more worried about fast cav or blood crushers coming in the middle of the feild to cause problems, but the anvils tough and is very hard to kill. I think Ive found a good battle report program called battle chronicler. I'm down loading it now and will hopefully be able to use it soon. I like typing my stuff up but I like to be able to see how we do it.



#16 Swordthain

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 06:26 PM

Ah, yeah! I forgot all about Battle Chronicler. Doh! That ought to work brilliantly. I should try it out myself, really. You're right, Dolgrim, the Anvil is typically super tough in close combat. The problem I run into is that it doesn't hit back very hard, so it can be tied up even by little chaff units for a couple rounds of combat or more, while you're unable to strike any runes in the meantime, which can be quite problematic. I always put my Anvil in either the very corner of the board farthest away from where I anticipate my opponent's fastest/toughest units will be deployed or behind some sort of terrain that will make the approach of enemy units towards my Anvil of Doom as difficult as possible. I love it when I have a building on my side of the table very near the edge, because I place my Anvil right behind it, making it virtually impossible to access by a unit more than a couple models wide. In one battle, because I had deployed my Anvil in the far corner, my Miners were able to come on from my right table edge, charge the flank of a unit of Blood Crushers, beat them, and run them down before they could get to my Anvil because they had to come close to that board edge in order to approach it.

 

@Cuthbo: I appreciate your kind comments! Don't sell yourself short, though. If you win because you used some of my ideas, well, YOU still won, not me! ;-) I wish I could offer better insight regarding the use of a Dragon Slayer, but I have not had much success with Dragon Slayers. If you field one, I would suggest fielding him naked so that he can benefit from the Slayer Axes special rule. Additionally, this keeps him cheap. The point is that no matter what you do, you're likely to end up relying on his T5 and 2 Wounds to keep him in the fight, which means that most units will just mow him down and overrun into your artillery park or whatever you were trying to protect with him. At least, that's been my experience.



#17 Dolgrim Brassbottom

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 08:49 PM

I really hope slayers get a bump up in the next book! I downloaded it but I cant get it to work but I will keep working on it. I could see the use in a dragon slayer or a small group of slayers to protect the anvil. Is there a weapon rune we could put on the anvil to help this? whats your thoughts on using thorek?



#18 Swordthain

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 01:48 PM

I like Thorek a lot. The biggest problem with him, though, is that you have to take an additional Runesmith in order to have a decent magic defense. I've tried Thorek alone, and +3 DD just doesn't cut it. Thorek does provide real potential for multiple units to benefit from the Rune of Oath and Honour, which is awesome on your second turn if your Miners show up. It is also nice if you have a chance to use the Rune of Wrath and Ruin with ancient power. I took out entire units of Chameleon Skinks with a single strike in one game I remember, and in another game, I actually was able to outshoot my opponent using the Rune of Wrath and Ruin with ancient power. That 3+ to strike runes on the Anvil with ancient power is no joke.

Another issue, of course, is that he uses up the MRoGromril, so you have to try to protect your BSB some other way. I've tried this army out without a BSB, but it's just such a gamble, especially when you depend on those Longbeard Rangers so much as your storm troopers.

Edited by Swordthain, 28 August 2013 - 01:52 PM.


#19 Dolgrim Brassbottom

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 03:04 PM

The thane other then the anvil is the most important part of these lists. That challenge rune is no joke and can really  throw the enemy into confusion and chaos early in the game. This is after their mind was blow during deployment.



#20 Ok Okri

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 04:06 PM

I'd like to advocate NOT using an anvil. It seems that it has become a staple in recent lists, but I found it to be too unreliable as it: could blow up taking your general with it; could get tied up in combat during the critical turns and so not use its powers; could fail to cast when needed; was very susceptible to initiative tests; and stands out as the biggest single target in the list.

I understand the love for the insta-miner-charge, the ability to slow opponent units, and such (having been there), but I found that the deployment flexibility rendered these things less crucial.

I'd be interested to hear your experiences. Perhaps this is a good point for the tactica thread (if someone is going to start one)?





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