Jump to content


Photo

2000Pts Vs Dark Elves + Chaos

whfb return 2k list de chaos

  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 Bran Loki

Bran Loki

    Dwarf Warrior

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 111 posts

Posted 10 July 2013 - 07:57 PM

Oi-oi, beardlings! It's nice to return here after 2 years passed. Recently I've heard a rumor of new Dwarfs codex in 2013 and my deep old love to grudging grumblers started to itch once again :)

 

I will have a game next weekend and would appreciate good advice on my throng list. It will be Order vs Destruction 2 on 2 game with my old friends, lots of beer and snacks involved and lots of rules missing our memory as well.

Most probably I will have High Elves ally, while opponents will be playing Warriors of Chaos (I saw minies painted in blue tones - Tzeench themed most prob) and Dark Elves or Chaos Daemons, I don't know exactly.

 

Limiting factor is number of minies left on my dusty shelves:

20 GW warriors, 20 HWS longbeards, 20 hammerers, few characters, 2 cannons, 1 GT, 1 BT, 1 OG, 7 slayers, 13 thunderers.

 

I will oppose lot of ward saves and that nasty magic anti-missile banner on WoC side, most prob. I would expect double hydra + some kind of deathstar from DE and absolutely have no idea what to expect from new Chaos Daemons. Anyway, I haven't played WHFB since 2011, so I don't expect to win, but it doesn't matter still want to win :lol:

 

So, here comes my list, you are mostly welcome to corect it.

 

Lords: 293

RL (General): Shield,

MRoBalance, RoSpellbreaking, RoFurnace,

RoPreservation, RoResist, RoStone,

RoMight

 

Heroes: 319

Thane: BSB,

MRoGromril, RoPreservation, RoResist,

RoFurnace,

RoFire

 

Dragon Slayer: drunk and naked

 

Master Engineer: GW,

MRoChallenge (hey you, stay away of my babe!),

RoStone

 

Special: 510

Grudge Thrower: RoAccuracy, RoPenetration x2, Engineer, BoP

Cannon: RoForging, RoBurning, Engineer

Cannon: RoForging, Engineer

Bolt Thrower: RoBurning

 

Rare: 120

Organ Gun (entrenched by ME)

 

Core: 758

20 Longbeards (BSB here): Shields, FC + MRoGrugni banner

38 Warriors (RL here now): GW, FC, Rangers (for deployment flexibility)

 

Total: 2000

 

 

Thanks for your time spent on reading my long post!

 

 

Edit: updated the list, added big block of GW warriors, made list more WM oriented, "standing army" :(

Edit2: another correction, fixed runes mistakes

Edit3: List finalized and I'm ready to go!


Edited by Bran Loki, 14 July 2013 - 08:53 AM.


#2 TheLostHold

TheLostHold

    Dwarf Warrior

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 148 posts

Posted 10 July 2013 - 10:38 PM

Hey Bran - thanks for taking the time to post here :)

I have a couple of thoughts on your list - firstly, you can't double up on RoStone, so use some of those points to put flaming on your cannon if you're pretty sure Hydras will be coming your way. Also, 50 points of runes is a lot for a bolt thrower that at best will be hitting on a 3+. If you have a specific use for it in mind, the MRoSkewring might serve you better.

Your ME can protect war machines too - but if you make a few if the saving suggested above, there's no reason you can't have both :)

Good luck with your game - make sure you let us know how you get on!!!

#3 Bran Loki

Bran Loki

    Dwarf Warrior

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 111 posts

Posted 10 July 2013 - 10:53 PM

Hi there! May I ask what's the issue with runes of Stone? The Rule of Pride restrics same combination of runes on different items, I don't infringe it: Thane has RoResistance+RoStone+RoStone; ME has RoStone+RoStone. All looks fine, please correct me if I miss anything. You are right about costly BT, but at S7 its potential is close to 1 wound, moreover I planned to use ME BS5 if/when re-rolls for cannon won't be required. Maybe I should just swap both cannon and BT for one full suite grudge thrower? But that would leave me almost without WM support fire, meh.



#4 Bran Loki

Bran Loki

    Dwarf Warrior

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 111 posts

Posted 10 July 2013 - 11:04 PM

After few minutes thinking on TheLostHold's most valid point about expencive BT, I found that I can field 2 cannons at same points:

225 pts

Cannon: RoForging, RoBurning

Cannon: RoBurning

and have 5 more free points. Thanks for good find, TheLostHold.

 

Edit: well, not exactly the same points, it cost 2 hammerers short lives, but they still can hold 2-3 rounds at 18+ RL, I think.


Edited by Bran Loki, 10 July 2013 - 11:07 PM.


#5 mac5

mac5

    Dwarf Hammerer

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 203 posts

Posted 10 July 2013 - 11:48 PM

Rune of stone entry in the book states multiples of this rune have no further effect.

Also you can only have one of any master rune and you've included 2xmaster runes of gromril.

Could you not use miniatures as proxies so maybe get rid of the longbeards and make the hammerers and warriors bigger.

Generally fighty Thanes arent considered worth the points as you can get extra infantry for the points and so potentially more kills kills and greater staying power. 

The rune of battle may not be that big a bonus on a unit of hammerers especially if you bulk them up as they will deal so many wounds +1 combat res is almost irrelevant.



#6 Bran Loki

Bran Loki

    Dwarf Warrior

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 111 posts

Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:04 AM

Rune of stone entry in the book states multiples of this rune have no further effect.

Also you can only have one of any master rune and you've included 2xmaster runes of gromril.

Could you not use miniatures as proxies so maybe get rid of the longbeards and make the hammerers and warriors bigger.

Generally fighty Thanes arent considered worth the points as you can get extra infantry for the points and so potentially more kills kills and greater staying power. 

The rune of battle may not be that big a bonus on a unit of hammerers especially if you bulk them up as they will deal so many wounds +1 combat res is almost irrelevant.

 

That sentense about RoStone limitation has skipped my attention, and doubled gromril, looks like I have to read army book once more. As for banner on hammerers - what else could suit them? I was trying to save few points in Special section. Anyway, thank you for advices, I'll return later with new thoughts.

 

Edit: What about going full WM line without hammerers, but with 40 GW warriors regiment? We always had WYSIWYG home rule, so I won't be able to use longbeards with shields (plastic ones) as proxy for someone GW wielding. Please check updated list.


Edited by Bran Loki, 11 July 2013 - 08:31 AM.


#7 Bran Loki

Bran Loki

    Dwarf Warrior

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 111 posts

Posted 11 July 2013 - 08:40 AM

BTW, how do you think, at which points level game 20 man GW squad is suffcient enough? Maybe I should drop the points cap for armies 'cause of insufficient bodies in my stock?



#8 mac5

mac5

    Dwarf Hammerer

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 203 posts

Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:25 AM

GW units to be effective generally need at least 30 guys to horde effectively plus a few extras because as they are generally hitting last they will lose a couple before getting to hit back.

I'd probably drop the engineer on the bolt thrower as the ME can use his bs 5 to roll to hit with it although the engineer does add a wound to the model. And will still be there if the ME heads off to fight any wm hunters.

 

 



#9 Bonecrusher

Bonecrusher

    Kro'undi

  • Brewery Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,804 posts

Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:33 PM

If I recall right MRof Balance and MRoSpite are both talismatic runes. You can't have two master runes on the same type on one character.

 

Also is Rune of fire a weapon rune? If so your Runelord and your BSB thane have the same runic combination on their weapons i.e. just the one rune of fire.......which they can't have.



#10 Bran Loki

Bran Loki

    Dwarf Warrior

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 111 posts

Posted 11 July 2013 - 05:46 PM

If I recall right MRof Balance and MRoSpite are both talismatic runes. You can't have two master runes on the same type on one character.

 

Also is Rune of fire a weapon rune? If so your Runelord and your BSB thane have the same runic combination on their weapons i.e. just the one rune of fire.......which they can't have.

 


Aye, thanks. I did lot of runes mistakes yesterday, need to rework that part. I'm still tuning the list, any advices regarding troops/special/heroes/lords slots are welcome.

 

Edit: I have updated the list, but unsure about runelord build now. Another disturbing idea: if I have so many WMs now, maybe I should save some points for better protection? Maybe a bare dragon slayer at 50 pts or at least swap 1 GW warrior for handgun on ME? Another question: what is better on HWS longbeards as magic banner: MRoGrugni  or RoCourage  + RoDetermination  or RoBattle + RoDetermination? 


Edited by Bran Loki, 11 July 2013 - 06:21 PM.


#11 Bran Loki

Bran Loki

    Dwarf Warrior

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 111 posts

Posted 13 July 2013 - 12:22 PM

So, after few hours spent on tactics review, I've finally came to my final list for tonight's fun and I'm ready to go. I thank all advisers for help provided and elders of this forum for tactics explained. I've updated the list in the first post.



#12 Bran Loki

Bran Loki

    Dwarf Warrior

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 111 posts

Posted 20 July 2013 - 08:08 PM

Got 1,5 games played with mentioned list. Here is story about how well did it perform.

First game was week ago and it was as expected a 4-man one HE+dawi force against DE+WoC, we rolled for Meeting Engagement game, at the start of the turn 3 heavy rain with strong wind had started (we were resting as large company outdoors at villa) and we had to cease the game. Though main surprises were spoiled, we have agreed to replay the game with same lists. Next morning it was wailing wife'o'kids hell and no one was in mood to play.

Chaos player has brought Throgg monster horde list with nurgle sorc lord and warshrine! Damned troll's got 3+ Regen right at the start (spell from shrine), I failed to dispell it on one dice, lol.

Yesterday I got a game (Blood and Glory) against DE.

Enemy had:

1 peg Shadow Sorc lvl4 with cheezy invul amulet, lifetaker, +1 spell item

2 pegmasters, one of them BSB with half BS/WS ring, GW, another with half shooting strength cloak, halberd, both with crossbows

5 dark riders with crossbows

5-6 harpies

hoard of corsairs with FC and frenzy banner

10 shades (scouts) with GW and hidden heavy loaded assassin

2 hydras

 

There is not much to tell, it was pure humiliation:

On turn 1 I lost OG to lifetaker and 1 wound off cannon from pegmasters' crossbows on my left flank.

On turn 2 I lost dragon slayer, ME (MRoChallenge has worked well, lol) and non-burning cannon, second cannon locked in combat with dark riders (they fled next turn).

Magic phase was shut tightly till turn 3, when sorc got IF on revulsive The Withering hex (-2T rolled), got large str10 miscast blast, killed 7 warriors and took off one wound from pegmaster, but stayed unscratched amidst all the destruction inflicted. Assassin and shades did some successful shooting against LB. My longbeard-champion died in challenge, after all charges were resolved. All MWs lost.

Turn 4: BSB lost challenge to assassin, RL lost challenge to DE BSB (I've decided to accept, maybe it was a bad idea), my army had broken.

I have killed both hydras, harpies, 4 dark riders, 1/3 of corsairs, half of shades, but Dum Elgi had slaughtered or enslaved everyone.

I'm nor really sure which conclusions to draw from that game, it was my first full WHFB battle after long break. Well it was fun anyway and I liked DE list, truth be told, it has totally countered all strong sides of my army, more grudges to settle, I say. Now I'm in anticipation of the game against chaos trolls horde!

 

P.S. Sorry for poor english, I'm a bit lazy and dizzy atm to look for errors.

 

Edit: I forgot to mention, that Sorc was DE general and just one bad luck miscast could turn the game at once, as they would break after general's death (2 break points out of total 4).


Edited by Bran Loki, 20 July 2013 - 08:16 PM.






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: whfb return, 2k list, de, chaos

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users