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1500 Dwarf List For Old Timer Playing New Rules

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#1 Old Scratch

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 04:34 PM

I haven't played Fantasy since back in the heyday of 4th edition which puts it at about 20 years ago.  Recently I been convinced to get back into it after I jumped back in to that other GW "Fantasy in Space" game.  Dwarfs were my first army and I still love them, especially all the old mini from the late 80s - early 90s.  Luckily I keep that all those old figs and I am ready to go at it again...

 

So I have a 1500 point game coming up soon vs Vampire Counts.  I read through the site religiously, reading all the tactica, Troop analyst, types of list that people play and etc.  I trying to build with I read is working in 8th edition currently, as when I played back in 4th most units I ran were between 16-24 in size and range heavy.  The only thing I really miss is I can't use my Halflings with the current rules.  I used to field a couple units of Halfling archers and a Hot Pot, they were there to feed the troops.  :)

 

Here is my comeback list.

 

Heroes  (307pts)

 

Runesmith (147pts)

Master Rune of Balance, Rune Of Spellbreaking, Shield

 

Thane (160pts )
Army Battle Standard, Master Rune Of Gromril, Rune of Preservation, Rune Of Resistance, Rune of Fire

 

Core  (405pts)

 

Dwarf Warriors x38 (405pts)

Great Weapon, Heavy Armour, Musician, Standard Bearer, Veteran
      

Special  (666pts)

 

 Hammerers x28 (366pts)
Musician, Standard Bearer, Gate Keeper

 

Cannon (130pts)

Rune Of Burning, Rune Of Forging

 

Grudge Thrower (170pts)
Rune Of Accuracy, 2x Rune Of Penetrating, Engineer

 

Rare  (120pts)

Organ Gun (120pts)

 

Total: 1498

 

So I would put the BSB and the RP with the Hammers and have the organ as main deterrent against WM hunters.  Still thinking of dropping the Hammerers and putting in a small unit of Thunderers and a medium size unit of Quarreler Rangers.  Any feedback is welcomed.

 

Edit list with due to Runesmith over points on Runes and with changes from feedback below about dealing with VC


Edited by Old Scratch, 29 June 2013 - 01:54 PM.


#2 The Bearded Baron

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 04:53 PM

Welcome back to the fold! It's a good list but your Runesmith is overboard on his runes by 20 points I'm afraid. I would reconsider the engineer on the cannon as with Forging he'll be less useful, but I suppose as an added insurance policy his pistols wouldn't be a bad plan. I would keep the hammerers and let the artillery pound your enemy unaided as you'll be needing another unit to stand shoulder to shoulder with your GW warriors. Hammerers being my favourite of all dwarf units I would always recommend them on the front line, you see! Thunderes are rangers are certainly worth their points in most lists but not usually at the expense of a hard hitting combat block.



#3 Old Scratch

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 05:54 PM

D'oh, hmmm...what so I do for the Runesmith then?  Should I drop a Rune of Spellbreaking or should I drop the extra armor runes...not sure.  My friend tends to be magic heavy at times...but Runes of Spellbreaking don't stop spells cast from IF.  Or I could drop the Armor Runes and add veteran for Hammerer unit to pick up on challenges since the RS will not be tanky anymore.



#4 Old Scratch

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 06:12 PM

Okay I edit the first post to reflect the changes since I was over on points for my RuneSmith.  I went with a Tanky RS...but still up in the air about it.



#5 The Bearded Baron

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 06:26 PM

Well if you are expecting a magic heavy opponent, there will not be a similar point costing mage alive who can get a spell passed a runesmith with MRoBalance and Spellbreaking (exactly the runic points allowance of a RS) plus the Dispel Dice from the RS and plus 2 to dispell from being dwarfs that should have you set up.

 

Alternatively if you feel your Runesmith might be taking some hits I would be pressed to suggest hiding him better rather than making him more survivable. But what kind of tactic is that for a dwarven general? RoResistance coupled with a shield gives him a 3+ AS that's rerollable, plus a 6+ Parry Save, that should be more than enough to keep him around, like I said he's not really the sort of dwarf you want on the front lines too often, although he is surprisingly survivable for what he is =)

 

At the end of the day the best motto is try and fail then learn and try again. Give any combination you wish a go and if it fails then amend it, I find I learn a lot quicker if its at the hands of an opponent rather than, and I say this with great respect of course, at the guidance of a longbeard! =)



#6 Swordthain

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 03:55 AM

Drop the Engineer from your Cannon. Give your Runsmith a Shield, MRoBalance, and RoSpellbreaking. Give your BSB MRoGromril, RoResistance, and MRoChallenge. Put both of your characters with the Hammerers. Drop two Warriors to add a Veteran to the Warriors unit and a Gatekeeper to the Hammerers unit. If you make those changes, I think you'll be slightly better off. If you're afraid of lots of high-Strength/poisoned/killing blow attacks, just step your characters out of the unit just prior to contact--be careful, though, so they don't get picked off. If you're just facing a particularly nasty enemy character, you'll have a unit champion, then, to save you from losing more Dwarfs or your characters for at least one round of combat.

#7 Old Scratch

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 05:18 AM

Thanks for the input, so locking down the Magic phase would be good vs VC?  Last time I played VC did not exist :-P

 

I was thinking of adding veterans to my troop blocks to take up challenges.  Knowing my buddy he will bring in a Flying vampire Lord of Doom, so I was worried about that, but I can delay him in combat I might be able to beat him with combat resolution.



#8 Old Scratch

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 07:04 AM

So modified the list above with the suggestion from above.  Any suggestion of how to use the MRoChallenge?  I could see it being to draw wizard hiding in the back.  Thanks again for all the feedback.  My game is coming up on Sunday morning.



#9 Swordthain

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 01:18 PM

If you're facing off with a Vampire Counts army, go ahead and drop the MRoChallenge. It does not work on anything Immune to Psychology, which includes virtually everything in a Vampire Counts army. You can re-equip your BSB Thane with a RoPreservation. You probably won't see a lot of Killing Blow, but it'll likely be worth it and more to keep your BSB alive. He's quite a bit more important than your General, honestly. Generally speaking, a Vampire Counts army will rely on its magic phase in order to replenish troops, augment combat with various buffs/hexes, and whittle your units down to size so that his units can deal with them. If you can stop the Vampire Counts' magic phase, your troops will quite simply outclass his, giving you the ability to win combat by significant margins, causing his units to crumble that much faster. You'll win the game. If your opponent brings a "blender Vampire Lord", you have basically three options: 1) if he's on his own, shoot him with your Cannon--you don't want him to make it to combat if you can at all help it, 2) if he's with a unit, shoot the unit until he cannot benefit from a "Look out, Sir!" roll, then shoot him with your Cannon--you don't want him to make it to combat if you can help it, and 3) if his unit is too large for you to shoot out from under him, shoot it enough to get it down to a manageable size, then multi-charge his unit with both your Warriors and Hammerers (easier said than done), allocate as many attacks on him as possible (preferably with your Hammerers (Strength 6 will wound more easily), making sure that you get plenty of active combat resolution from your Warriors as possible. In this case, if he issues a challenge, do not accept unless you simply have very few models left in the unit, because it will mean safety for your General or BSB and an extra attack on him from your Gatekeeper or Veteran. It's ideal if he has about 5-10 models left in his unit, because you should do enough wounds to the unit to more than make up for the wounds he causes in close combat against your troops, meaning that your higher combat resolution will eat through the last couple of models (if any) and then be allocated to him, finishing him off. Does all of that make sense?



#10 Old Scratch

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 01:47 PM

Yes, I see what your saying that if I get the Vamp General in to combat, it best to get my troops to do the damage needed to get combat resolution to break it.  But I should do whatever I can to kill him before he get in to combat. 

 

So should I run the Warriors in horde formation to get as many attacks off as possible? Or have deep ranks with them maybe something like 6x6/7 or so? What about the Hammerer, not sure if 30 man unit is enough for horde to be effective. 

 

Thanks again for the advice, the game has change a lot since I played it oh so so long ago.  I edited the list above to reflect playing vs VC.


Edited by Old Scratch, 29 June 2013 - 01:55 PM.


#11 CH1LLYD0GG

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 08:15 PM

If you had the spare cannon models I'd have 3 of them instead. VC are prone to character killing. Sniping VC's and the other hero's cripples the whole army. They will get some magic off, the trick is to have just enough dis-spell  dice to make your enemy roll more dice than he wants too. When a lot of people know they are facing Dwarfs they drop all their magic - VC's won't.

 

VC's have the option for some super monster combat counts. Nothing we put on the table stands much of a chance. Snipe and redirection are the tools to deal with them. For that you need smaller units or cheap characters.

 

Using the above list the best piece of advice I can give is to really focus your fire. If you take 5 models from 3 units he'll just raise them up. bang 15 models from 1 unit and he'll struggle to raise dead as he won't have range. This will lead him to use bigger spells, roll more dice, which will work against his battle plan.

 

Ignore the worries of IF. It happens. You just hope the enemy kills himself lol.

 

I hope you enjoy your return to the fold.



#12 Swordthain

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 02:48 PM

I would say deploy your Warriors in horde formation. You have enough of them. You're right about the Hammerers, though. You really don't have enough of them to make a big difference with horde formation. On the other hand, it might be worth deploying them in horde formation. You can always reform them later on. VCs don't have much shooting to speak of, and in combat, you're not likely to lose a lot of models unless you're up against a character or Knights or something, so it might work out for your Hammerers to get a few additional attacks from being in horde formation that first round or two of combat. I find that a lot of new players want to know how they should deploy their troops, but then they take it as a universal prescription. The fact of the matter is that you have to be flexible and able to think on your feet. It is not uncommon for me to change the formation of my units during the course of a game, sometimes multiple times. The formation you use should be dictated by the needs of the army during the course of the game.



#13 Old Scratch

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 05:14 PM

I played the first game of Fantasy I have played in over 15 years and I was a blast. A few notes from the game:

 

  • Fear is a "I swear too much"…The VC player had me checking with -1 LD and rolling 3 dice and drop the lowest for fear checks
  • 3 Wizards on the VC side made it rough to lock down the magic phase and with the handful of spells that got through he was able to grow his Undead horde to bigger then he started but I was able to stop all the debuffs he was sling about.
  • The Str 5 GrudgeThrow was amazing...splat!!!
  • I dumped so much firepower in to the Vampire Lord and he still survived through the whole battle, but what do I expect when he spent 330 point on it...
  • Nothing more frustration then watching a unit that you brought down to half strength grow back to full strength more then once in a battle...grrrrrr
  • Man, I forgot how SLOW dwarf move...lol
  • 30 Str 5 attack is nothing to sneeze at
  • Thank God for the BSB it saved my bacon more then once in the game
  • Organ Guns are the Bee's Knees, wish I had 2 of them in the game

 

Overall the game could of went either way as of turn 5 my friend had me on the ropes but a rally of troops and really lucky rolls on my
artillery the Dwarfs were able to turn the tide and win with a score of 820 to 25.


I would like to thanks you all for the feedback and advice.  I am definitely looking forward to my next game with my Dwarf army :)



#14 Swordthain

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 08:37 PM

Do you know what item or rule was making you test your Leadership for Fear checks on 3D6 and drop the lowest? I am not familiar with anything like that...



#15 Old Scratch

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 03:26 AM

I believe it was the Aura of dark majesty is negative leadership, and the screaming banner is rolling 3d drop the lowest.  This is what my buddy told me, I not sure on the rules since I don't have a copy of the VC army book.







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