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How Can We Fix Slayers?

slayers new revamp

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#81 Sturmbrow

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 05:10 PM

I seem to remember something somewhere about play testing slayers as skirmishers and one player had the bright idea of using them to ring war machines

Unbreakable skirmishers mean no warmachine hunters could get close

I would see them as individuals hidden in units akin to goblin fanatics, but the units also need to be kept

#82 Granitbeard

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 10:13 PM

Well skirmishers still have to form ranks this edition, so couldn't circle a warmache.

 

I do agree that some kind of save vs shooting is needed, and I feel that if they got it and skirmishers, then it would have to be at very best 5+ and work against all magic as well. Spells don't need to roll to hit so hurt far more.



#83 evanger

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 10:30 PM

A bunch of great ideas here! I can't wait to see how the new book shakes out!



#84 Doregar Dragonslayer

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 08:15 AM

three more weeks and we will see...



#85 Thordin Silveraxe

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 12:32 PM

IMO a troll slayer should be able to defeat a troll in single combat. Slayers should be the standard dwarf who has not slain any big gribblies yet, and troll, giant, dragon, and deamon slayers should each be able to beat their name's monster. How you would go about this, I'm not sure, but it makes a lot of sense in fluff terms to have it this way.
I can just imagine a greater deamon facing off against a lone dwarf!

#86 cptfluffy

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 03:28 PM

I've always related the name of the dwarf to the type of monster the slayer is currently trying to kill. Such as, a newly pledged slayer would go after a troll (unless presented with something more desirable) and once they slay they monster (or equivalent) they would set their eyes on a bigger target and become a Giant Slayer and so on. This doesn't mean that the Named slayer can defeat that monster but it would be a challenge and considered a glorious battle for them. Although, this would mean that ideally the Dragon Slayer could then defeat any monster below them (Troll/Giant), Though, that doesn't mean it's a guarantee.

 

Note: This also would take into account that you're talking about a single slayer vs a single troll fluff wise.


Edited by cptfluffy, 04 January 2014 - 03:31 PM.


#87 thormon

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 10:03 PM

IMO a troll slayer should be able to defeat a troll in single combat. Slayers should be the standard dwarf who has not slain any big gribblies yet, and troll, giant, dragon, and deamon slayers should each be able to beat their name's monster. How you would go about this, I'm not sure, but it makes a lot of sense in fluff terms to have it this way.
I can just imagine a greater deamon facing off against a lone dwarf!

 

That would probably require a 'deny ward save' rule. And that would make them quite heroic...



#88 Doregar Dragonslayer

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 07:40 AM

until now no slayertype could defeat the beast he has in its name (if we take out lesser daemons that could be killed by a daemon slayer) and changing that would make them horribly expensive, so i am really curious what will be done in that case...



#89 Thordin Silveraxe

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 11:31 AM

Heroic and expensive, but very very cool.

#90 Granitbeard

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 01:59 PM

Movie Slayers??? Kind of like the old movie marines? We get 5 guys at 2500 but they have the stat line of:

 

Troll: M7 WS7 BS7 STR6 T6 IN6 W4 A6 LD10 (Two of these guys one of the rest)

Giant: M7 WS8 BS7 STR6 T6 IN7 W4 LD 10

Dragon: M7 WS9 BS7 STR7 T7 IN8 W5 LD10

Deamon: M7 WS10 BS7 STR8 T7 IN9 W6 LD10

 

All slayer rules in effect, the slayer skill still works, things with toughness5 or more then boost their strength to 10. Killing blow all around, Deamon get HKB. They all get 3+ Dodge saves, Deamon again gets a 2+, which works against all wounds and all spells.

 

Now that I think it.... I wanna try it really bad


Edited by Granitbeard, 05 January 2014 - 02:02 PM.


#91 Doregar Dragonslayer

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 01:55 AM

hello??? dwarves with M7 and I6-9? this would be the same like i mentioned with the frozen chicken, just give them a greater daemon stat-line and everyone says *yay*.

the max statline for a slayer should be Gotrek, cus he is the most (or least) successful one.

killing blow is a good idea.



#92 Granitbeard

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 02:28 AM

"MOVIE"  Slayers is the key word there, try a search for 40k movie marines. think of something like 300, a few guys just going crazy on the enemy. granted I did go over the top, but the 5 guys I said would total 2500 point in my mind, it was a joke nothing really intened by it.



#93 Doregar Dragonslayer

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 06:00 AM

harhar, if you see it that way, you forgot to give them some "scout"-rules, so we can use them as john-rambo-guys and let them mess up whole armies! :thumbup:



#94 Elodin

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 11:40 AM

I'd like to see Slayers changed to be like Lone Wolves in the Space Wolves codex.

You can take one or two in an army, he's strong, hard to kill and on his own (also maybe let him come on the board like an Ambusher) If He survives the battle your opponent gets victory points as if he died. If he dies, his oath is fulfilled and nobody gets VP.

Some people may say they shouldn't have a save, but I'd disagree. Yes they shouldn't have an armor save, but these are Slayers, they don't go down easily. Something like a Feel No Pain (40k rule) would work well.


That being said, considering the rumors mentions a Slayer box, I seriously doubt this would ever happen, but it'd be a fun, fluffy way to make them useful.

If they stay rank and file, give them M4, swifstride charging monsters, a 5++ save. I'd be happy with that.

#95 Granitbeard

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 12:25 AM

If they give us doomseekers, they might work that way. One can only hope they change for the better.



#96 Lomack

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 12:25 AM

Some great ideas gents. I was all on board with the ward/dodge saves, cheaper, etc UNTIL my best bud and long time GW player threw something my way that just screamed DWARF SLAYER in the warhammer world. It just makes me think slayer oath.

Parting Blow:
Any wound that kills a Slayer allows a Parting Blow.The Parting Blow allows for every Slayer, that loses its last wound, to make one normal attack, with the Always Strikes last rule, and before removing the model at the end of combat. Roll to hit, to wound, and to save as normal.

Parting Blow could make the Giant upgrade more worth while and interesting. Maybe have it auto-hit.

Seeing that slayers called Daemon/Dragon slayers have graduated to fulfill their oath by fighting bigger nasties they would also have Parting Blow but the Dragon Slayer would have Killing Blow and the Daemon Slayer Heroic Killing Blow. This could make that return strike nasty.

(all other slayer rules would remain:axes, STR vs T, unbrekable, etc)

I suggested two auto hits per dead slayer earlier in the thread.
Go all out. Make them really scary.
They will get shot at.
I want a scary cc unit in my army!
All the other armies have one!

Edited by Lomack, 10 January 2014 - 12:28 AM.


#97 Foe-Hammer

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 02:42 AM

I do like the idea of getting X number of victory points for each slayer casualty in combat with a enemy that has either a S or T of 5 or higher, as well as having a ward save from the tattoos.

#98 Durak

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 03:02 AM

An idea. A new slayer skill:

Giant Slayers: D3 wounds
Dragon Slayer: D3 wounds and strength increases with toughness up to 6.
Daemon Slayers: As dragon only can re-roll the multiple wounds.

Troll slayers are dwarfs who just took the oath, so nothing special besides unbreakable. But as slayers fail in their goal their skills improve.

Imagine a dragon slayer charging a dragon and actually having a chance at killing it!

#99 Granitbeard

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 10:57 AM

An idea. A new slayer skill:

Giant Slayers: D3 wounds
Dragon Slayer: D3 wounds and strength increases with toughness up to 6.
Daemon Slayers: As dragon only can re-roll the multiple wounds.

Troll slayers are dwarfs who just took the oath, so nothing special besides unbreakable. But as slayers fail in their goal their skills improve.

Imagine a dragon slayer charging a dragon and actually having a chance at killing it!

 

That is pretty good. So none of the smaller slayers get the str boost? I would kind of like to see slight str boosts for giant slayers but maybe that is me. Other wise something like that works IMHO.



#100 Rune of Might

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 10:14 PM

I honestly cannot agree. Slayers should not get special bonuses like that. they are disgraced and honor bound to die in battle. I agree that they should fix the rules that are already in place, maybe adding eternal hatred or even giving them skirmish, but Adding rules that would make them to multiple wounds or killing blow just does not match the fluff or even carry in the rules. They would be Troll Slayer- 11 points, Giant Slayer-50 points, Dragon Slayer 100 points, Daemon Slayer 200 points







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