6 replies to this topic

[Ryric]

I will be attending my first 'real' warhammer tournament, and I've selected a major one for it, the NOVA OPEN. According to a friend, its one of the biggest on the East Coast, and is fiercely competitive. He went last year and encountered a Khalida TK bowline, ld bomb demons, and a couple other cheesy builds that I forget.

Hence, this list is intended to be hard as nails, yet favoring artillery. Due to the painting requirements and the limited numbers of well painted troops available to me, the list is largely unalterable. What I am primarily interested in is strategies for using the list presented here against various cheese builds.

A few notes: I have only one slayer model, hence the sole Dragon Slayer. I am aware that the two main blocks of 20 each are smaller than the standard 30-40 models per combat block. There is reasoning behind it. Between the various redirectors and the amount of firepower available to me, I should be able to control the combats they engage in.

The one item that is truly up for discussion is the inclusion of the two BTs instead of a second OG. There are several reasons for this. First, I was taking the ME anyway to increase the chances of the GTs firing every turn and they synergize nicely with him. Second, they are useful against armored targets and ace against the odd Brettonian lance. Third, they are useful against solo characters - forcing them to take cover and rely solely on ward saves for defense, a weakness in some armies. Fourth, they are useful against multi-wound creatures, particularly ogres, and are adequate against normal infantry, as they can punch through several ranks. Fifth, they cannot misfire under any circumstances and will always be available to augment my firepower. Finally, I enjoy BTs.

The list:
Runelord 438
Anvil, Shield
MRoBalance, Spellbreaking
Rune of Resistance, Preservation, Stone

BSB 160
MRoGromril, Preservation, Resistance, and Furnace

Dragon Slayer 55
Rune of Fire

Master Engineer 115
MRoDismay, Furnace, Stone

10 Thunderers 140

10 Quarrellers 110

20 Dwarf Warriors 215
Standard, Mus, GW

20 Longbeards 295
Full Command, Shield, Ancestor Rune, Rune of Determination

5 Hammerers 78
Gate Keeper, Muso

5 Hammerers 78
Gate Keeper, Muso

Cannon 130
Rune of Forging, Burning

Cannon 125
Rune of Forging

Grudge Thrower 155
Accuracy, Penetrating x2

Grudge Thrower 130
Accuracy, Pentrating

Bolt Thrower 65
Engineer, Rune of Burning

Bolt Thrower 90
Engineer, Master Rune of Skewering

Organ Gun 120

Total 2499/2500
Models 107

[Vanyon Ulrikson]

I would group the hammers into 1 unit of 10. This way when they take casualties, they still have enough to hit back. You have the quarrellers,thunderers and OG to deal with chaff. I would use the Hammerers as a counter charge unit using the anvil to get to the flanks.

[Ryric]

The batches of five hammerers are not intended to deal with chaff, but to conga line and buy time when their are too many blocks incoming for me to deal with any other way.

[elspedo]

Problem I see is you havent got anything to actually kill anything if your artillery fails. With 20 it just isnt enough to hold anything and once they are through those 2 units it will just be a case of them mopping up your points.

[Ryric]

Yet, I have no points to make them significantly larger without reducing the long range firepower. With so little experience with this level of competition, I wanted to stick with what I knew best and what I had best painted. Hence, artillery based gunline. It's deliberately risky - if my artillery fails, I fail.

[David L]

I think you have too many drops. 7 plus characters means you will be missing the +1 for first turn in some games, and going first is absolutely critical. Replacing the Thunderers with a second Organ Gun is both an overt upgrade in firepower, and a decrease in drop count. And you can still meet min core with a warrior champion.

I disagree with Skewering on the bolt thrower. Keep it cheap, be willing to deploy them alone way out on opposite flanks and sacrifice them.

I think MRoChallenge on the Master Engineer would be much better than MRoDismay. I just don't think much will fail the MRoDismay test, and MRoChallenge can almost guarantee you a failed charge (make them need a 12" to hit him, instead of something short to hit a real target).

[Ryric]

Hmm... that is not a bad idea, adding another OG. I see a couple of problems with it though. First, I have to paint it up, which shouldn't be too hard. Second, it adds 3 more crewmen to the list for basing, flocking, and fitting in. I bought most of my army second had via ebay, so have many different color schemes, though I'm steadily condensing that down to a mix of red/white units and blue/silver that look good together.

I think I'd rather exchange the quarrellers for the second OG, simply because I prefer thunderers to quarrellers. They hit better, due to the +1 and harder due to the AP. It will bear consideration.

As for the Skewering on the BT, the issue seems to arise from differing views on their use. I am familiar with the school of flank usage, but I typically keep them with the ME and the GTs. ME in center, GTs behind, and BTs in front. The wm park may or may not be on the flank, depending on the map. Thus, keeping them cheap is less relevant than making sure they are effective. Still, that would be a useful place to save a few points and might expand my deployment options. Worth considering.

Challenge vs Dismay. Part of it is a preference issue, that I do not care for challenge. Second, my ME will rarely be a legal charge target in the middle of the 4 WM park described above. Third, Dismay guarantees nothing, but has higher potential benefits. It can stop many units from charging, and while it probably won't stop the one that I was most concerned about, I should have prepared for that in the first place. Also, dismay is most effective against those armies with leadership issues and access to lots of cheap chaff, specifically OnG or OK, and occasionally, will even stop a major block within general and BSB range. It's like the Skewering, not a key part of my battle plan, but simply one more tool in a toolbox, another shot in the dark.