32 replies to this topic

[Alebelly_Cragfist]

Conga line is just as, if not more cheesy than the Warshrines though

[Hortennse]

Not in the slightest, it costs a "I Swear too much" ton, is guaranteed to die without doing hardly any damage, and in a blind list it's going to be a huge waste of points vs most opponents.

Yes it could be said that it abuses a game mechanic, but ogre players do this every day by using their command models to hide their Runemaw BSB safely in the second rank of a gutstar.

That's a philosophy I got over pretty quickly once I started doing tournaments, if no troops in your army book can conceivably beat something, you have to resort to something else to win. Why should I just lose a game because my opponent can take something I have no chance of killing? Winning the GLWL was my best win ever because I had to get past an Ogre, a Book of Hoeth, a Chosen Star, and a Dark Elf list to win it. All of those are tall orders for dwarfs and I had to tailor my list each time to have the best possible chance. I did feel kind of bad on my last game because I ran into an Empire player and frankly wiped him out badly because dwarfs are well suited to fighting them in the first place, and my units of miners with a war machine hunting Rune of Brotherhood character really pushed things overboard

Edited by Hortennse, 16 July 2012 - 04:07 PM.

[Alebelly_Cragfist]

I get your point of view, don't get me wrong. I just think a conga line is sinking to their level. Its only purpose is to slow down 1 specific unit. I'd be very surprised if you felt 100% fine with fielding it. Deep down, part of you must've gone "EEeeew" as you set them up

[Halbrad]

Erh, Alebelly, I think you're overdoing it a bit mate Obviously, the win-wth-all-the-tricks-and-tools game (which is not quite the same as the WAAC game) is not for you, but there are people that enjoy the tactical challenge of playing the game this way, just trying to outthink their opponents without cheating, but by simply using all the legitimate tricks. That's not necessarily something to look down upon, it's simply another way of playing the game, that isn't compatible with the way that you like to play it.
Tzeentch Chosen with favour and two shrines make a for a unit that is impossible to deal with, but even in tournaments where it is allowed, the warriors don't seem to do all that well and certainly not consistently. Hortennse found a way to deal with it with dwarfs (which is no mean feat) , and many other armies can deal with it considerably easier by avoiding it and killing the rest of the army.

[Alebelly_Cragfist]

I think it's more a case of "don't hate the player, hate the game". Any one who knows me here will know I err very much on the fluffy side, but a proper thought out AB should not necessitate "tricks". I know the slayer conga line is an oft qouted trick for dealing with 2 shrines, and I dare say people expect to see it. But to me, there's still a whiff of fromage to it

[Hortennse]

I agree with you more than you would think. I really wish GW made balanced enough books that I didnt have to max out my lists performance wise to have a chance at winning. Sadly the release of the Ogre Kingdoms book proves that they are still not over this tendency, I truly believe they power up the armies that not as many people naturally tend to feel like playing with to sell models. Face it, High Elves are one of their biggest sellers quality or not, and they havent been a top tier army since back in 5th edition. They were the best army to counter the dominant Daemons of Chaos with in 7th (entirely because of Swordmasters and the fact that "step in" attacks didnt exist yet), but that didnt really translate to overall quality. I really doubt many players would be using Skaven were it not for the winning factor, same with Ogres, they're just not the first thing most players want to play when they are thinking about fluff. Have you ever noticed how much higher quality the evil races are overall compared to the good races? Lizardmen are the only top tier Order race. Destruction gets Dark elves, skaven, WoC, Daemons (not as good as in 7th, but still top of the line with Kairos), I consider Ogres to be destruction fluff-wise even if they made them neutral since they're pretty much like orcs and goblins. Maybe Games Workshop figures that players want to tend towards being the good guys and needs to give the players incentives to represent the forces of evil.

I remember that back in thr Storm of Chaos world campaign the High Elves carried the good guys just by sheer level of participation, and boy was Armor of the Gods a nice reward for it . (I think it was 30-35 points of an unmodifiable 3+ armor save that gave the wearer +1 strength too).

Edited by Hortennse, 16 July 2012 - 07:16 PM.

[Excellis]

Wow WoC sounds bad... have they been this over powered forever? why has GW not done anything to help the rest of the old world all i know is i wont be versing any WoC anytime soon

-Excellis

Edited by Excellis, 19 July 2012 - 12:41 PM.

[Hortennse]

They're not that bad when players resist the urge to use the combos that put them overboard. But I will say they are the only army who I feel my troops legitimately have no chance to beat if they plan their troops right.

[Halbrad]

Actually, I don't think that they are that bad at all and I can't remember ever having lost to them with dwarfs. Their magic can be dangerous but we are probably the race that is most suited to dealing with it. Their shooting is limited to the Hellcannon which is expensive, erratic and easily cannoned of (though devastating if it hits home). This ensures that they are force to march across the table and they ain't that quick. It generally doesn't take much more than a good OG or GT hit to reduce a warrior block to manageable proportions for dwarf blocks. Sizeable units of knights can hurt and huge marauder hordes with GWs are a genuine problem, but fortunately I don't see them often. If they lose combat, it almost always means they break as they have no innate stubborn/unbreakable stuff and without rerolls to hit they are prone to bad rounds of combat.
I'll take warriors over Skaven, Lizards or Ogres any day!

[Hortennse]

It's crazy how different people's experiences can be, I've literally never even lost a fun game to ogres with my dwarfs and feel like we're cryptonite to them.

[Dolgrim Brassbottom]

Does a warshrine get thunder stomp? If so then That could be how

[Alaric Ironaxe]

No, it says in the FAQ that it doesn't.

[Dolgrim Brassbottom]

That is correct I hadn't read that yet I just knew it was a monster.