61 replies to this topic

[Vanyon Ulrikson]

As I understand it she was kidnapped after the meeting on her way home.

[Alebelly_Cragfist]

That makes more sense, especially when rereading above...

[Corvain]

Yes, they were kidnapped on the way home; the over 1000 dawi WAS an honor guard for the princess. No this book was written by Phil Kelly, Vampire Hater and fluff writer extraordinaire. (Not a fan of what he did with VC in this book, fluff wise) ; Sorry. i have no usable scanner to scan the story for you...which is just as well as i'm sure GW would not like that.

Problems/inconsistencies with this story:
1. Rangers, Scouts, Gyrocopters, Watch towers, Early warning systems- Nothing detected any part of either massive army, just outside the gates of their capital. ((Noting that both O&G and VC are horde armies, so to overwhelm 1000+ dwarves, and likely 1000+ elves, the numbers of their armies would be astronomical))

2. Kemmler's ability to raise (and maintain) such massive numbers of undead instantaneously; placing him at around a minimum (in game terms) of caster lvl 28.

3. Elven Air support retreating before the rest of the army AND spreading lies to the elven king of dwarven betrayal AFTER a successful alliance conference.

4. The battle took ALL DAY ("as the sun went down") and no word ever reached any dawi to send reinforcements? (I live in a very mountainous area, on a clear day they could probably have seen the battle from a grand mountain such as Ever Peak)

5. Orcs running down mountainsides? It's hard enough to get down a good mountainside, but to run? talk about dangerous terrain tests...

6. Why ressurect Nagash anyway( i mean, Mannfried made a promise that he would in exchange for knowledge...but comon, he's evil; evil people break promises); according to the book, the best thing Nagash has done for the vampires is ordered them to battle. He also cursed their entire race, all but laughed at them for their flawed immortality; not helping them fix it, withheld helpful information, etc. Nagash is a jerk. It would make more sense (to me) to turn Aliathra into a vampire queen. Someone of such beauty and magical prowess would be an invaluable asset to the Vampire hordes (if you can even call them that after the fluff in this book; pm me if interested but their outlook is bleaker than any of the Forces of Order...and that's just sad)

If Phil Kelly reads this forum (doubtful) please PM me, we CAN fix this book's fluff in an Errata!

[Corvain]

OR..... We could run the rescue of said princess. Where the HIgh king himself calls upon the aid of his human allies and leads the Throngs of multiple holds through the remaining hordes of orcs and Vamps in an effort to rescue the little vixen. the High Elves could be present, but as suspicious allies. Makes me want to write a story already.

I actually rather like that idea, but as Alebelly said, the problem is that it's all VC terrain then. It would however give garetvarr the chance to use his walls and siege equipment. There has been speculation that the story was left open ended for just this reason (speculation that maybe in the new dwarf book a force will be sent to retrieve the princess). The other problem is that unless they're there for revenge or as mercenaries, why would the orcs be there (though i suppose they'll do anything for a fight)?

VC pretty much always use human lands as thier base of operations, leaving it open to Empire, High Elves, Dwarves vs VC, Orcs?, Chaos or Skavens? ; The terrain being a split between humanish and undeadish with perhaps some dwarven and elven fortifications and makeshift scenery put in (in the event of a siege).

[Alebelly_Cragfist]

Before we get ahead of ourselves, I want to go back to why I initially started speaking about a Brewery event a year ago. My aim was to establish a community event for Bugman members, an awesome, large scale event that you couldn't get at any gaming club and had Dwarfs as a central race.

Now that it looks like we could well make this an annual occurance, I want to stick to those core themes.

1. Dwarfy
2. Epic.
3. Fun.
4. Beer!

Whatever we decide, Dwarfs have to be (in my not so humble opinion) the central theme. There are other forums and communities that can arrange their own visions of what their event could/should be.

Feedback on the 2012 Grudge Match was that it was let down a bit by scenery. GW did us proud with what they had available, but it wasn't Tor Alessi. A good suggestion for a way around this was to have an event centred around some form of Dwarf territory. There's lots of fluff to support the ever increasing number of lost Dwarf battles/zones we can draw from.

One thing I would like to personally champion is the inclusion of Helfs primarily because of the two players that shared a vision and had enough conviction to travel to Nottingham and give us a game. Whether we fight against them, or with them, I really don't mind.

The VC fluff seems like a good fit and could make for some fun objectives and dynamics that suit our 2 day event. It also allows each of the Dawi players to get motivated to build some cool terrain for this and subsequently their own games. It also allows us to get into WNT over on GW.com

That said, nothing is set in stone

[garetvarr]

Ah zo,I vill haf to research VC castles / fortresses, bat launching platforms that sort of thing.

Vill our varriors be required to have zee garlic sandwiches or perhaps we could have garlic throwers instead of grudge throwers.

Will there be stake and garlic on the menu (chuckle,chuckle)

[The Low King]

I feel that involving too many races would be bad. The more forums we get in on it the more we rely on others to muster the players.

[Corvain]

Well it would probably be fine just to do Dawi and High Elves vs. VC and O&G if you could get enough people. (i say two on two instead of one on one to attempt to meet alebelly's requirements of involving HE, historical battle, etc.)

[Alebelly_Cragfist]

Well, we can redo the 2nd Chaos incursion:
Dwarf + Helf vs Chaos. Loads and loads of WoC and DoC players
A 3 ways battle between DE, HE and Dwarfs to replay the initial teachery building up to the WOTB (might be a fun dynamic, all v all)
The new VC fluff (more armies, but seems popular)

There's probably more inc HElfs, but they don't immediately spring to mind.

One day we'll recreate the major Dwarf battles with Greenskins and Skaven, but let's wait and have an AB update before then

[Bonecrusher]

Wait wait lets get this straight, the elf host who have already beaten a load of orcs (guessing here) because of martial prowess and magic second only to teclis, and who is the only elven mage (errm its the kings daughter you'd think back up mages would have gone). Arrive at the biggest dwarf hold. That army is say doubled by dwarfs. Who then destroy an orc army, which then gets resurected as well as the dwarf/elf dead with one spell (errm what? So this liche/vamp is better than Nagash now). Destroy all the dwarfs (elves obviously standing behind the dwarfs at this point), so the flying elves run off (despite the flying undead) abandoning their princess (rather than carry her off), who then creates a bridge by herself, which is destroyed when she is knocked out sending her army to fall to their death.

Who writes this rubbish? This is on the same level as Storm of Chaos ending. Chaos fights to the walls, Beats up the good guys (fine). But orcs come head buts him goes I'm the best and walks off. (huh? what?), which then sends the chaos army running off. Largest undead army ever walk up to the city but turn around when the arch lector (or something) goes,"I killed your sire, so I can kill you despite you being more powerful).

[Alebelly_Cragfist]

Yup, it's, what's an appropriate term... gash? Starship Troopers has a more convincing storyline than this

[Dourin]

The thing is, despite it being one of the more abominable pieces of fluff (talking about Storm of Chaos, remember Garagrim the Warmourner and how that whole can of worms got 'resolved'? Bah!), it has gotten us fired up to do better.

Which is a point in GW's favour, as to inspire is all that it's there for.

[simonwkb]

Yup this piece of fluff is a real botch job. And if I am able to attend next year I would love to ammend this by giving this battle the end it should have had But I'm allways up for fighting off a chaos incursion aswell! My brother is a helf-player so if I'm flying over there I hope I will be able to persuade him to join.

[Elithmar of Lothern]

Fighting Chaos sounds good. Asur and Dwarfs against WoC and DoC? Sounds good. As long as I don't have to go ANYWHERE NEAR any of your stupid, noisy, dirty blackpowder...I was about to say weapons, but perhaps toys would be a better word.

[Torendil Zharrgrund]

I'm in favor of re-doing the second chaos incursion. As Alebelly said the fluff is awesome and it would be nice to fight alongside HE for a change (you didn't hear me say that) and we could still use loads of Dawi terrain.

It's also easy to make up a huge load of special objective games at a smaller points size for the first day.

- Chaos storming a dwarven watchtower = mini-siege.
- HE landing and chaos trying to stop them.
- Chaos attacking HE marching in a valley.
- Dwarves undermining chaos camp or trying to shut down a pass in time by blowing it up.
- .....


I also believe a couple of "official" functions would help Alebelly share the load of organising this and keep things smooth.

Torendil

[The Low King]

I think that the key thing is to choose a scenario where dwarfs have the biggest army. Its being arranged by a dwarf forum so we can assume that there will be more dwarf players than anyone else.

[Tah Kazak Rik]

Personally I would love to go to the event. I would love to meet you all in person, as I said about this years event. But hopefully depending on this years events, and if God wills me to go, then I will be able to do so.

By the way Alebelly, check your PM box.

[CitizenThane]

Will there be criteria as to who can attend and such? I wasn't involved this year, think i was barely a forum member but this sounds like the sort of thing i d love to be involved in Uni allowing of course

[Thane Morgran]

I think the only limiting factor this year was a willingness to travel to Nottingham, and if under the age limit WH world sets to bring a responsible adult with you...

For next year, no solid decisions have been made, but I think we may wish to keep below the 10 table limit (above which we'd have to pay for the event), so numbers may be slightly limited.

[Andrik]

I think that doing one which involes elves is a good way of showing our appreciation of the effort they put into the WOB battle aswell. Which would obviously lead to a Chaos incursion battle. If we did this would also give Dwarf players who have a slayer army a dam good chance to use them (which lets face is few and far between).

The option would be running one with OnG as mentioned previously. This could be something to do with the Battle for Karak Eight Peaks, as it would allow OnG and Skaven players to be involved which should give us more players. But its a sad battle

So I think Chaos if were being nice to the Elves or OnG as we have alot more grudges against them