33 replies to this topic

[Alaric Ironaxe]

at 2500pts i take a runelord with M.rune of balance, r. spelllbreaking, r. shielding and a shiel. so far he has stopped every big bad spell(accept for curse of the horned rat once because it was irrasitable force) and 1 game even stopped every spell. so just him can stop most enemy magic. and whats great about the 8th edition maic is even if i were playing a 10,000pts game id take just him with more runes and an anvil and another runesmith and that wouold stop pretty much all magic(since thats +5 dispel dice and you get to take 1 power, so even if the enemy rolls 2 6s for magic he ends up getting 11 and you end up getting 11).

Edited by thorek ironaxe, 14 May 2011 - 07:05 PM.

[Targ Ironfist]

If you make the runesmith/runelord your general, they have a price tag on their head

In really small games e.g. 1200 - I do not take runesmith -just go on with selective dispell - try to kill enemy mages with a cannon +thunderers combination.

1500+ It is a Runesmith with two spell breakers - he shuts 2 big magic phases and you have some points to spend on defensive runes as he will have to be your general.

1800+ Is either NO Runesmith as I take the tank lord^TM OR if I am going against magic heavy opponents I take RUNELORD - 1 MRoBalance + 1 RoSpellbreak - this is enough. + He will be my general, so with the big price tag on his head I really beef him up defensively - Shield, RoStone, RoResistance and RoPreservation is the usual stuff (basicly Furgils Runelord -1 spellbreak).

2400+ I will always consider the second spellbreak. As the MRoBalance + Runelord shut down most of the average phases and you have 2 more phases to shut with the spellbreak.

Spelleater - consider it when going against undead. BUT - if you play a friendly game - either you roll the 4+ on the Vanhel, or some important incantation - which will realy kill the game for your opponent (and it is supposed to be a friendly game) -or you do not roll it. If not, you wasted points, usualy, as Spellbreak will do the same and cheaper.
So I leave this to competitive environ of 3000+. Also one aspect is to be considered - Dawi are a dependable army. Why involve unneeded gambling? I do not really think, it is going with the theme, but this is realy a personal opinion.

No runesmith/runelord option
As you will teach your opponents to fear your antimagic shutdown (and effectively cancelling huge amount of their points), their thinking will go in a certain way:

1/ They will take no mages againts you - to force you to spend your points with less effectivity (Only realy bold players will do this -to walk without their magic supporting sticks, but it happens) - this you counter with:
a) -taking no runesmith/runelord and using selective dispelling - look, if the enemy spell is with IF - your runelord wil not stop it. But if it is not - he has to spend a lot of dice and you have always some dice and a +2 dwarf dispell roll at your disposal (outside against undead, this works quite well as no runesmiths/runelord means more offensive punch - WM and combat or shooting dawi).
-taking reasonable anti magic, so his tactic has a lower effect on you -so i.e. you consider taking only a runesmith with a Spellbreaker.
c) -Variety of fielded dawi armies - you simply play the psychology game and use varied dawi armies - with big antimagic - sometimes and with small or no at other times. If you and your opponent have the right mindset, this is really fun. (And with more variety you lower the chance of being bored with playing the same army).

2/ They go magic heavy and use any combination of items to increase the IF chance.
- Most really important spells do have a small range. You know which mage has the "I swear too much" spell. So?
Kill it.
Grey seer on a Bell? - you shoot him down with your quarellers, or Grimnir willing you charge him with your dawi charge of 13" ! Your 35+GW warriors will kill him in round one, usualy.
HE Mages with folariaths robe - we have runic cannons.

Do not really fear this, as we are DAWI!
With a proper use of generalship, you will be able to survive this and outside of Teclis - IF means problem for your enemy too.

3/ They simply just go for the random chance of IF.
-This has to be with a low level of mage, as Mage lords are not so much disposable realy.
-The 2nd lvl mage has to roll the spell first - you know he has it. If not, he has 2 spells. and?
Most spells are very well equaled with a good grudge thrower shot. I give more respect to the flesh to stone then pit of shades.
Flesh to stone you can dispell. /Who will go IF for a flesh to stone? - only the most devious minds /.

You know, which mage has the problematic spell. Kill it. Whe have great warriors, we have great warmachines, so kill it!

4/ They will keep on using a reasonable level of magic.
-You will keep in using the reasonable level of dispelling.

You beardlings, do not forget to dispell remains in play spells in your magic phase!!!

[Slaine Mac Roth]

In games of +2K, MR of Balance is not very cost-effective, and I strongly recommend using at least 2 Runes of Spellbreaking before taking MR of Balance.
generally, I use MR of Balance and 2 runes of Spellbreaking on runelord in high-point battles, and at 2K I use Runesmith with 2 runes of spellbreaking.

[Stymie Jackson]

On the contrary, the MR of Balance is VERY cost effective. It is 20 points cheaper than a Runesmith, and actually causes a 2 dice swing during the enemies magic phase, not just 1.

I usually find two spellbreaks a waste against all but the most powerful of enemy mages (Rumination Slann, Dark Elf with Spearelf power dice, some chaos builds). Also, many enemies (Chaos and High Elf and Slann) rely on Irrestiable force, making scrolls somewhat useless at times. Granted, many folks swear by double Rune of Spellbreaking, but in my experience half the time I really gotta try to use even one scroll.

[Targ Ironfist]

In games of +2K, MR of Balance is not very cost-effective, and I strongly recommend using at least 2 Runes of Spellbreaking before taking MR of Balance.
generally, I use MR of Balance and 2 runes of Spellbreaking on runelord in high-point battles, and at 2K I use Runesmith with 2 runes of spellbreaking.

As said by Stymie, on the contrary.

If he does not have the dice, he can not cast that IF. I do not take the balance only in smaller battles because I want 1 spellbreak at least (when taking a runesmith) and would not have then runic allocation left for his protection.
(And even that is debatable. MRoBalance means -6dice per game for your opponent - that is 1 "I swear too much" spell AND +6 dice for you - That is either 2 medium dispell attempts or 1 biggie)

By the way, Runelord is ideal for the MRoBalance, as he has still enough runic allocation left to get a good armour (I said good? I meant great!)AND make the MRoBalance stay through the battle and give you its huge advantage.

I would recomend 2 spellbreaks (without the MRoBalance)only for a single runesmith build, as he will be able to use them before he dies, usualy.You can go for a variant of shutting first 2-3 magic phases and then hoping your artillery has done enough damage to win you the game. Cheaper anti-magic with a Tank lord, maybe.

Edited by Targ Ironfist, 04 July 2011 - 04:25 PM.

[Ryric]

My area doesn't go too crazy on magic, though you will see a teclis occasionally. We often see the lvl4 +2 or a slann, but those aren't too bad.

Rumination Loremaster slanns are probably the toughest opponent I've had to face so far. The others, my RS with Spellbreaking and Balance shuts them down. I even took that combo to Ard Boyz and only had it fail me twice (it worked against VC, O&G, Skaven Seer+Bell, and a rumination loremaster slann, it was useless against teclis and a DoC army). One of those times, the DoC was my first time playing them, and I stupidly put my ME, RS, and three war machines in an area covered by a large template PoS on Round 2.

[Gregaz Magnusson]

Hello All,

I mostly play at 2000 points and generally i use a Runelord nice and simple with just a MRoBalance. This combined with my BSB with MRoValaya has made me win my last two games at least. And they were against a HE army with Teclis and lvl 2 Dragon Mage and today against the lizards with Slann + Teto Ekko. I have found that this way the only time it seems that the opponent is getting more power dice than i dispel is if he rolls a 10+ on magic, which doesnt happen often!

Have Fun regardless!
Gregaz

[The Jarman]

Evening All

I've only been playing Dwarfs (and WHFB for that fact) for about 4 months and in every game I've always taken a Runelord, Rune of Spellbreaking and Master Rune of Balance. Even for small armies this has been the case. I've always faced armies that have a fairly good chance of fu****g up my plans whether it be High Elves, Skaven, WoC or Vampires they all have something that I want to shut down at least once a turn. I figure this is something that Dwarfs do extremely well so why ignore it? He's always been my General as well, as the likelihood of having anything else decent to be general at 1500pts is slim.

I might well be wrong here, but the three friends I play against all hate the fact that I shut them down more times than not. They guy who plays the WoC doesn't even bother bringing spell casters any more!

Laters
The Jarman

[Targ Ironfist]

Evening All
...
I might well be wrong here, but the three friends I play against all hate the fact that I shut them down more times than not. They guy who plays the WoC doesn't even bother bringing spell casters any more!

Great!
Now is the time to occasionaly not field the Runelord against the WoC guy and bring the Tankie Lord^TM instead. (No Runelord at all, rarely, but sometimes...). The psychological thrill will be fun, I guarantee you. For both of you.

[Scarecrow]

The best magic defense base that we can pull off is:
Rune Lord- AoD, MRoBalance
Runesmith- MRoSpellbinding, Roxxxxx
Runesmith- MRoSpellbinding
BSB- MRoValaya

No matter what the winds of magic are you'll always have more dispel dice than your opponent has power dice (at worst 12 to 11. At best 7 to 2) while matching them in power level. At base this is a 695 point command group so it prolly works best at 3,000+ pts w/other equipment/runes. But it still would be awesome to field.

Edited by Scarecrow, 17 April 2012 - 09:05 AM.

[Montegue]

I almost always take the Anvil of Doom these days. With my Runelord, Balance, and a couple of spell breakers, it's a very rare moment when a spell gets through without my permission. I am almost always one die ahead of my opponent or more in the magic phase, as well.

If I wanted to be cruel, I could probably sneak out another 50 points and turn those Breakers into Eaters.

I really wish we had slightly cheaper troops. I don't like investing so many points in stopping my opponent's magic phase. I'd much rather spend them on more fun units on the table. But, that's the life of a Dwarf general. The Runelord isn't terribly useful outside of his anti-magic, which was one of the many reasons I decided to go with the Anvil. It's useful even if my opponent doesn't have any magic at all.

[Dimetri1]

I geberally play 2500pts, Take 2 Runesmiths, spellbreaker and MRoB.

[don_macabre]

The best magic defense base that we can pull off is:
Rune Lord- AoD, MRoBalance
Runesmith- MRoSpellbinding, Roxxxxx
Runesmith- MRoSpellbinding
BSB- MRoValaya

No matter what the winds of magic are you'll always have more dispel dice than your opponent has power dice (at worst 12 to 11. At best 7 to 2) while matching them in power level. At base this is a 695 point command group so it prolly works best at 3,000+ pts w/other equipment/runes. But it still would be awesome to field.

You can only take one Master Rune of Spellbinding, as it's a Master Rune.

If you want to thoroughly buff up that anti-magic, I'd give your two Runesmiths the Master Rune of Spellbinding, Spelleater Rune and two Runes of Spellbreaking.

And, as to matching your opponent in power level, even with only one Master Rune of Spellbinding, you still outmatch them. Remember the standard +2 to dispel for being Dwarfs; +2 for Master Rune of Valaya; +1 for Master Rune of Spellbinding = +5 to dispel. There are some casters who will match that spell for spell (eg., Tzeentch level 4 caster), but not many. And then consider that you have - as you say - a seven-dice swing on the Winds of Magic and two dispel scrolls for when you're feeling weary and can't be bothered to lift all those dispel dice plus the 50% chance of completely destroying your opponent's spell once per game.

Not a lot that would be going through that... :D

[Graxlar]

So I have a question that relates somewhat to this thread. about to do a 5k Storms of Magic battle. Wondering what I should do to fight the magic. Only thing I know for sure is I am not bringing the Anvil, and since I have 1250 in SoM points I was thinking a truth sayer and a level 4 Emperor Dragon

What anti magic ideas do you guys have? I will be playing vs one of these 4 armies and will not know till game day which. Mortals, Demons, Beast or Dark Elves.