33 replies to this topic

[Javidson]

Well the question is simple, how do you shutdown the enemy's magic phase? Or even do you bother buying magic defense when you could be buying more troops instead?

Since this is variable determining on the points level you play, please say what points level your tactic works for. I will impose a max of 3000pts as I don't think anyone plays frequently above that limit.

As always posters can have a beer on my tab so get posting!

Javidson

[Sutr]

up to 2500 i go with a runesmith with balance and spellbreaker. you don't have to stop EVERY spell, just those that might be gamechanging.
above that i'd say a runelord with those runes and a couple more protective runes

[the bearded one]

RUnesmith with rune of spellbreaking and MroBalance, works like a charm, so why change it? Selective dispelling will see you through. Just let spells that you think won't cause a lot of damage through and dispell the ones that matter.

[amysrevenge]

At very small points (anything above Warbands), say 500 to 1249 I'll take a Runesmith as general, and maybe one rune toward the top of the band

1250 to 2199 I go the same as above posters: Runesmith, MRoBalance, RoSpellbreaking

2200 to 2999 I use (for reasons both anti-magic and otherwise) Runelord, Anvil, MRoBalance, 2xRoSpellbreaking

3000 I use Runelord, Anvil, MRoBalance, Spelleater Rune, RoSpellbreaking

Edited by amysrevenge, 18 February 2011 - 09:42 PM.

[Hutt Lord]

For any game up to 1500 points I take a runesmith with spellbreaking.
For 1500 to about 1800-2000 points I take a runesmith with balance and spellbreaking.
For about 2000 to 2500ish points I take a runelord with balance and at least one spellbreaking.
I don't often take an anvil, but if I do it's not in any game under 2500 points.

[Thoric]

Hail, Dwarf-Brothers!

I fight at 2000 points and I have in my army a Runesmith with two Runes of
Spellbreaking. Sometimes I struggle a bit with heavy magic opponents, but
on average it is enough.

[kgkid]

In local big tournament games, that are very magic heavy, I've found the hard way that single Runesmith with Balance and Spellbreaking is not enough. For friendlier games, and for tougher games with my friends I take only him, since I do try to give a magic phase a chance.

Still, to "shut down" a magic phase (IF excluded) at 2.5k I found 2 Runesmiths with Balance, Spelleater and a Spellbreaker are a minimum. They're expensive, but if you're facing 6+ levels of magic they're pretty needed.

The only way to really close the opponents magic phase is to kill the wizards.

[Gop]

I tend to play in extremely magic heavy tournaments, so for 2500

Runelord: balance, spelleater, spellbreaker + armour with preservation, resistance, stone
Runesmith: spellbreaker, stone

some tourneys limit dd so 2 runesmiths sometimes go along with similar setup.

[Bugman's horde]

I have a 3000 point scheduled for this Tuesday and I have chosen to go with 1 x Runelord with MroBalance and one Spellbreaking. I questioned the use of MroValaya but cannot justify the points. Does anyone here use it? Is it worth the cost?

[Southern Dwarf]

We normally play at 2,400 here, and at that level, almost all other armies have a Level 4 with at least one supporting mage. So it's pretty magic heavy here.

I've found that it's not just the Dreaded 13th/Mindrazor/Purple Sun that needs to be stopped. It's the critical hexes and augments that turn a close combat into a certain loss or screw your battleplan. That Mystifying Miasma that means your Longbeards are hitting on 4s, not 3s, or can't move into the Watchtower due to being M1. Or when the opponent gets an augment on a key unit, and proceeds to win a combat you would have won comfortably.

So I'm currently running either two Runesmiths, one with the MRoBalance, the other with a Spelleater and a Spellbreaker. This means I change the PD/DD ratio by 4, which is pretty key in fending off the minor spells (with major consequences). The Spelleater is there to give me a chance to kill that critical spell; it's nice to have a 50% chance of killing Purple Sun or Dreaded 13th. The Spellbreaker is there as a backup to the Spelleater if it fails to kill it, and your opponent casts the critical spell in another turn. If Spelleater succeeds, then the Spellbreaker is a nice thing to have in reserve.

This means that often opponents are looking at throwing 6 dice and hoping for an IF, but that has some consequences for them too. In addition to the miscast, it means they're spending more dice on fewer spells. It also means that sometimes opponents won't bother using remaining dice when you have a pile of DD left.

This is expensive at 274 points, but given that a tooled up Level 4 and Level 2 costs up to twice that and you've neutered them, I think it's points well spent. You can put the same rune combination on a Runelord for 273 points, which gives you T5 and a spare 20 points for other runes, but you don't have 4W in two seperate characters.

I had tried the single Runesmith with MRoBalance and Spellbreaker, but found he was getting overwhelmed. The problem was those 'little spells', particularly Miasma. It does depend on your local metagame.

Edited by Southern Dwarf, 25 March 2011 - 01:24 AM.

[Kasador]

i have been trying manny combinaison of magical defence. the best combinaison price/effectiveness comes from a runesmith with 3X spellbreaker. by using 1 rune per magic phase you simply shut down the entire phase by switching the balance of dice in your favor. there is almost always a 4 dice cast at some point in the phase if you spellbreak this one (no matter what it was to be honest) you just gained the adventage of dice number and the rest of the phase will be verry weak for your opponent.

3 is normally enough. If by turn 4 i havent sniped, crushed, pumelled, slashed the freakin mage i can honestly say i have done something wrong or my opponent has done some thing verry good.

basically i have 3 turn to smash his mage and its normally enough. if i had to go heavyer i would take a second runesmith with spelleater and spellbreaker.

[Mark]

I have a 3000 point scheduled for this Tuesday and I have chosen to go with 1 x Runelord with MroBalance and one Spellbreaking. I questioned the use of MroValaya but cannot justify the points. Does anyone here use it? Is it worth the cost?

In 3000 pt games, I like MRoValaya. I run it in my primary combat block of troops. The pts on every dispell roll are nice, but auto-shutdown of RIP spells it what sells me on its value. In a game of larger points, you're facing more magic, and more IF casts. The look on an opponent's face when his Puple Sun of Xereus is removed from the table at the start of my magic phase- or explaining to them that the Withering he cast is now gone, and that the unit of Dwarfs that charged his troops isn't nerfed afterall- those are feel-good moments that can easily save you more points than the banner costs.

Still, it is an expensive add-on. I'd probably never consider it in an army smaller than 3000 points. MRo Balance is a much higher priority item in my book. Without a large number of dice to roll, they are less likely to IF in the first place.

[the bearded one]

I upgraded my runesmith to a runelord with 2 runes of spellbreaking and master rune of balance. Now nothing gets through, and I've got a spare scroll so I can burn off my first one in the first few rounds without too much worry.

[Kroggi Thunder-Blaze]

What spells would you guys say to be the most significant? and a lot of you mentioned letting spells through and dispelling the big stuff, but arent the majority of those spells sent off irrisitably? How do you deal with a dice spam magic user? ect, ect?

Thanks

[Javidson]

Truth is you can't, the best option is some wizard hunting to kill the "I swear too much" early on

[Eric Mason]

The master rune of balance reduces the number of opponent's power dice, so that helps reduce the odds and/or number of irresistible spells.

Rangers can be a useful part of anti-magic by making it easier to get to grips with mage bunkers earlier in the game. (I got a book of hoeth, shadow wizard in my last game with my rangers in turn two.)

Eric

[RedZeke]

I have to admit, I was slow to come to the MR of Balance fold, but love it now that I take it. I go Runelord, MR of Balance, Spelleater, Rune of Spellbreaking. The Spelleater could probably be downgraded to another breaker for efficiency, but sometimes dropping that 13th, or Van Hel's, or Mindrazor really breaks the game wide open. Haven't really regretted taking it.

The Balance lets me own the magic phases where winds are rolled low, while the other two (breakers or eater & breaker) let me control magic phases that roll high for winds. Unfortunately, it punishes people who have gone reasonable on their magic offense, so in non tournament environment games, I would certainly consider going with a runesmith instead.

[stratigo]

A smith and a lord with an MRoB on one of them is enough to shut down normal magic.

Problem is a magic heavy army will usually have something to make sure they get that spell off. All HE armies I've played minus one have had teclis in it.

an army running purple sun on a disposable guy with a power scroll is something that will just about beat every dwarf army out there unless they really roll bad on throwing it.

[Javidson]

Thankfully both things you mentioned are banned in most tournaments so the max chance of a player getting IF is 25%

[Barundin Throndinson]

at -2000pts a Runesmith with MR of Balance and one spellbreaking works fine, as mentioned before selective dispelling and a good understanding of the different lores and how each spell will affect the game will see you through all but the worst. There are those times when the worst really does happen but "hey" what can you do?

Edited by Barundin Throndinson, 23 April 2011 - 12:32 PM.