20 replies to this topic

[Javidson]

Deployment, the phase of the game that perhaps takes longest to master and the one that even the longbeards can learn new tricks to use in it. What cunning plans do you use to outsmart your opponent in this phase of the game? Do you deploy a solid battle line, BSB in the middle facing your enemy's hardest unit? Do you castle in one corner? Do you save your best units 'till last? Do your war machines always go on the nearest hill?

In short, how do you deploy?

The 8th Ed Handbook wants your input and as always posters get a beer!

Javidson

[Sutr]

i'd say it depends a lot on the army list your're playing.

if, like me, you're going for warmachine heavy supported by solid blocks i'd say refused flank. hug a corner on your own deployment zone and make the enemy pay dearly for every inch he moves closer to you and once he gets there smack him with GW warriors and hammerers. this deployment gives you the best usage of the BSB (well.. probably your entire army will be under it), the easiest way to protect your warmachines (hug them so the enemy can't reach behind your line becouse there's actualy no space for him to put his minis on) and it also gains greatly from having a few limited number of characters (runesmith, BSB mandatory then sprinkle an engineer and or dragonslayers at taste).

[Javidson]

How about deployment drops? How few is too few? How many is too many?

[Javidson]

What I tend to do is to put all my war machines and quarrellers on one flank, and all my CC troops on the other. The Quarrellers provide a tough screen (I usually take about 30 w/ GWs) which my war machines can fire over, and the CC troops can then focus on half the opponents army and hopefully wheel round to take care of the other half later. This means I get to face half of my opponents army with around 75-80% of mine

Javidson

[theorox]

That's great Javidson! I'll try it out for sure!

I start with my missileunits on a place where they can get a decent view of the entire field, and so that they can decide between a variety of targets. On a central-ish hill if possible. Then comes long-ranged WM's like GT's wich can cover basically the entire field i want to cover. Close to the missiletroops for protection if necessary. Then i deploy my blocks of troops a bit reactive to my opponent's battleline, so that they don't get stranded away on some flank. They basically deploy in a straight line reasonably opposite of my opponent's line.

Theo

[Javidson]

Personally my plan also changes depending on whether I deploy 1st or second. In an alternating unit scenario, if I deploy 1st then I tend to ignore what my opponent is putting down and focus on where I want my stuff. In short I let him react to me. This means that he may accidentaly put some of his combos out of range etc or put his units in a place I can easily avoid. If I deploy second however I keep back my most powerful units and deploy the cheaper stuff so that when I do deploy my good stuff, I know where the threats are.

You can also feint drops by leaving a gap so that your opponent thinks you'll deploy a good unit there, and then don't. This leaves him out of position and you outnumbering him somewhere else.

Javidson

P.S. I use 'him' because most members of this hobby are male. I don't mean to offend any women/girls

[vermitt stain]

i like to deploy a couple of small ranged units maybe a war machine or two at one side of the deployment, so the enemy deploys some of his units that side, then deploy the rest of my army on the other side.

did it one game against a chaos player half his army spent 4 turn walking towards the main body of the army completely ignoring the 2 war machines i had deployed over there as he considered his units to powerful and expensive to waste turn going after them. so by the time he got to me i had taken care of the half of the army that was near me and the rest was to weak after several turn of shooting to do anything.

[Javidson]

i like to deploy a couple of small ranged units maybe a war machine or two at one side of the deployment, so the enemy deploys some of his units that side, then deploy the rest of my army on the other side.

did it one game against a chaos player half his army spent 4 turn walking towards the main body of the army completely ignoring the 2 war machines i had deployed over there as he considered his units to powerful and expensive to waste turn going after them. so by the time he got to me i had taken care of the half of the army that was near me and the rest was to weak after several turn of shooting to do anything.

That is what I like to hear!

Javidson

[Javidson]

Has anyone else got a plan they like? Some people have mentioned the refused flank, why don't you explain it for those who don't know the terminology?

Javidson

P.S. remember all posters get a beer!

[Iron Wolf]

The Refused Flank a.k.a. 'Oblique Formation'

Alexander the Great utilized this strategy more than any other General I have studied. What this tactics consists of is luring your enemy to one location of your forces as the greater majority of your forces comes in from the side of their troops and takes them on a little at a time. Basically, you are saying, "Hey! Over here!" With some cheap, sacrificial and/or fast (so they can retreat) units as the bulk of your army moves in from a flank. Due to the path of the enemy towards your other flank (the refused one) your army hits them on their flank. Since you aren't hitting them head on you are able to deal with them one regiment at a time, as most armies were formed up very wide and not very deep.

The way this is done in Warhammer is by deploying 'bait' units on a flank. I recommend Quarrellers and a Gyrocopter as your first 2 deployments. The enemy will deploy 2 or 3 units on that side of the board as they are assuming you will be deploying the bulk of your force there. If your enemy deploys some valuable units on that flank then you have succeeded. You then deploy your war machines and nasty combat blocks on the other flank.

As the enemy moves forward they will have to decide whether or not that 10 man unit of quarrellers is worth it. The good thing about deploying a Gyrocopter there is that you can just fly away out of harm's way. The enemy will end up moving all the way across the board from the other flank, buying you enough time to eliminate his units closest to your main flank one at a time.

I hope this was helpful. Have a cold one on me!

[Tah Kazak Rik]

This is my typical deployment (my army is the bottom one):



In this example I have my thunderers (brown blocks) and War Machines (small circles) deployed in a single line, while my ranger units are deployed out to disrupt the enemies plans. The Anvil is in the back, and is guarded by a block of Ironbreakers.

Miners are not deployed on the board and will arrive where needed.

That is my typical army deployment, and I of course change it due to terrain, and scenario.

If I use a more infantry based army I perfer to deploy in a castle formation with units further up and others further back to create refused flanks.

[Javidson]

This is my typical deployment (my army is the bottom one):



In this example I have my thunderers (brown blocks) and War Machines (small circles) deployed in a single line, while my ranger units are deployed out to disrupt the enemies plans. The Anvil is in the back, and is guarded by a block of Ironbreakers.

Miners are not deployed on the board and will arrive where needed.

That is my typical army deployment, and I of course change it due to terrain, and scenario.

If I use a more infantry based army I perfer to deploy in a castle formation with units further up and others further back to create refused flanks.

Do you find just lining up works then? I would have thought that It would be especially important with a shooting army to only take on part of their force at a time. That way you can combine your shots to destroy a target rather than wound it.

Javidson

[Tah Kazak Rik]

Yes, it does seem to work, because sections, left flank, center, right flank concentrate fire on targets within their sections. This way we can spend each shooting phase dealing with threats on every flank, rather than dealing with one critical target and the rest of the enemy arriving without any damage.

[Javidson]

Yes, it does seem to work, because sections, left flank, center, right flank concentrate fire on targets within their sections. This way we can spend each shooting phase dealing with threats on every flank, rather than dealing with one critical target and the rest of the enemy arriving without any damage.

Well it was only what I guessed, I having never played a gunline

Javidson

[Tah Kazak Rik]

Well it was only what I guessed, I having never played a gunline

Well its a good guess. Often against armies that horde easily like Skaven (as you will see in my battle report of the tournament I was in) it does benefit yo mass shooting in one area. But against normal armies that horde only a little, then it benefits to bring the enemies numbers down. This is because the enemy will often outnumber us, and you should use shooting to bring their numbers to levels we can fight equally, or close to.

This is why it is important to support shooting units with combat units. I use to do this all the time before I decided to dedicate my armies to certain themes. My normal ratio was 2:1, for every 2 units of xbows or rifles, I deploy a unit of combat infantry.

Edited by Tah Kazak Rik, 24 December 2010 - 05:51 PM.

[A.Wagg]

Ahh...

I had a huge write up, but my computer freaked and its gone... Hopefully I'll find time to re-write soon.

[Javidson]

Ahh...

I had a huge write up, but my computer freaked and its gone... Hopefully I'll find time to re-write soon.

Ahh man!

Hope you do find time because this guide isn't quite as complete as the others

Javidson

[Javidson]

The art of Decoys

During deployment try not to think of it as a way of getting your models on the table, consider it a way of getting ahead in the battle before a shot has been fired. It is a phase of the game that can be won regardless of your list or stats or equipment.
Without further ado, lets begin.

1)The gap
This one's simple, leave a gap between units as you deploy. Normally you keep your best units 'till last so your opponent will assume that they will go in the gap left. Throw a curveball by not doing that, he will have lined up his stuff to take it out and instead be faced with empty space. You on the other hand have a dangerous unit ready to prey on the weaker members of his force. This tactic worls best when you have more deployment drops than your opponent as he is forced to deploy his good stuff before you.

2) Decoy units
For this you need either a fast unit (Gyro) or a unit that will stay stationary, preferably with a long range shooting attack. You deploy these units on one side of the battle field. Your opponent counters with some units of his own. You then deploy the rest of your army elsewhere to hit him in the flank. Also known as the refused flank.

3) Using terrain
Yes your war machines can see alot on a hill but do they really need to be up there? You could deploy them embedded in your line or even behind it as GT's and OG's can see over our troops. With rivers, trees and other terrain becoming more dangerous this Edition, why not use them to guard flanks or, if you're feeling lucky, deploy in them for the chance of bonus effects? Of course you can't get steadfast but against some armies you aren't likely to get it anyway. (Skaven)

Now these plans are not perfect but they're the best I could think of right now. If you've got any better ideas please post them! We will all benefit from them!

Javidson

[the bearded one]

I try to use the terrain to my advantage and use a piece of terrain like a building to anchor my battleline on. You can see it in a couple of my battlereports. I tend to deploy thunderers first, more or less in the centre of my deployment zone and if possible in a building to give them an ideal shooting platform from which they can fire at the enemy every turn of the game and pick the best targets. Second to come down are the 10 quarrelers who go more towards one of the flanks. These missiletroops are cheap 'bait drops' so I can see where my opponent's dangerous units are deployed. Usually I will end up deploying the majority of the army on one side of the thunderers in building, who act as the anchor.

Then the warriors are placed. Usually I place them opposite on of my opponents weaker units which he used for 'bait drops' as well, because I can be fairly sure my warriors can take them on. After that the longbeards go down, never directly next to the warriors as I leave a gap open in the middle where the hammerers are placed. The hammerers have the MroGrungni and so spread it's aura to the longbeards and warriors next to them.

Finally I sprinkle warmachines around. They tend to go in gaps between the blocks, the bolt thrower far on the flank simply to get attention by threathening with flankshots. It is 65 pts that usually draw a response that is worth far more. The organ gun goes as central as possible, next to the hammerers is preferred. The grudgethrower either goes behind the battleline or takes position in a corner on a hill. The cannon varies, but tends to go directly on the flank of my 3 CC blocks or behind it so it can shoot through a gap.

The lord drops in the hammerers, the runesmith variably in the warriors or longbeards and my BSB almost always in the corner of my longbeards that is closest to the hammerers, to get his 12" BSB aura as close to the center of the line as possible. I could put him central in the hammerers but I don't like putting all egs in 1 basket in such extreme measure to make it an 800pts block.

I also try to get my lord and hammerers in front of the nastiest thing they can find, because my lord is a tank.

[Targ Ironfist]

The deployment starts with deploying terrain

This has to be first considered, as both players are deploying the terrain - e.g. you get to deploy one half of pieces.

1/ Think about making choke points in the middle. Wooded areas when playing ag. bretonnia.

2/ Defended obstacles on both sides of the field, if you have them.

3/ Place the super hill to one side and most enemies will think, you are going to place there, if you win the roll. Then through deployment use Javidsons advice on placing the quarrelers and gyro there. He is gona respond. Psychology game: should he respond, you let quarrelers there and send gyro where appropriate. If he doesNOT respond - fine you deploy round and on top of this nice hill and he will have some stuff stranded somewhere else...

Slayers - you want to use them in some lists? OK.
You deploy terrain in such a way that you create nice hill and woods combo. Most of his army will not see them unless it will be too late + they get the -1 to hit for soft cover in the woods.
It is very hard to dislodge even a medium sized slayer unit from such a position and they have really great havoc causing potential there.

You do not have to destroy the game for your opponent by completely obstructing the middle, BUT it is nowhere written you could not use terrain to your advantage. If you really want to understand, then read Sun Tzu (5 times at least -he is kinda chinese and it was multiple meaning verses fashion in his time).

Edited by Targ Ironfist, 02 July 2011 - 06:21 AM.