[Daft]

I have not played in about three years so hear me out. This is how miners used to work. Has something changed?

1. At the begining of the movement phase roll to see if the miners make it to the table.
2. Place the miners on the table.
3. During the remaining movement phase, the miners my move or reform.
4. During the shooting phase, the anvil is rung, and the miners may charge with anvil aid.

Hence, on the turn miners arrive they have an effective 12"+ charge range with the help of the anvil. 6" + 6" anvil charge + the distance from your front rank to the table edge they arrived from.

So the more ranks of miners you have, the more distance you can cover on the charrge because the are placed on the table with their rear rank on the table edge.

I hope I explained that ok. It is hard to explain what I am saying.

[David L]

They may move the turn they arrive, but not march. They follow the rules for returning from pursuit off, which bans marching that turn.

If they could march, the extra 3" would make them considerably more usable. They would still be poor, but it would allow them to reach (or marchblock) a useful enemy a bit more often.

[H33D]

When miners arrive, the rulebooks states that they are treated exactly like a unit that pursued an enemy off the table the previous turn. This means that when they arrive they may make a normal move, but may not march or charge. So you will basically get your 3" move. Some would argue that the relentless rule would give them a 6" march because they "may always march even if enemy are within 8"", but this just prevents them from being march blocked, they still may only make a normal move on arrival.

Also, they are placed on the table edge with their rear ranks against the table edge. Movement is measured from the front rank as normal, so you would get 3" plus the length of the unit forward from the edge of the table.


Once the shooting phase begins, you may target them with the Rune of Oath & Honour to allow them to make a move in the shooting phase which may be a march or charge.

So if you make them three ranks (as many or maybe too many ranks as you should give them), or roughly 2 inches long they get to be 5 inches from the table edge and then an additional 6" march/charge in your shooting phase, for roughly 11" total. This could increase with more ranks, or if you deploy them in a conga line, or do some other cheesy maneuvers.

Edit: you beat me to the punch David!!!

This post has been edited by H33D: 05 February 2010 - 09:14 PM

[Daft]

They "may always march even if enemy are within 8"". That is what I was thinking about. The fact that they may ALWAYS march would be pretty clear to me. Going on to say even when an enemy is within 8" is only one example where relentless takes effect. I would say that it would even circumvent a spell that kept a unit from marching if such a thing existed.

3 inches can make all the difference in the world.

[Bonecrusher]

Daft, on 05 February 2010 - 11:47 PM, said:

They "may always march even if enemy are within 8"". That is what I was thinking about. The fact that they may ALWAYS march would be pretty clear to me. Going on to say even when an enemy is within 8" is only one example where relentless takes effect. I would say that it would even circumvent a spell that kept a unit from marching if such a thing existed.

3 inches can make all the difference in the world.

I'm pretty sure that relentless just allows dwarfs to march when within 8" of an enemy due to the writing. I think if it was intended to be all the time then it would be worded as the enemy within 8" would be an example....."dwarfs can always march e.g. when in a forest, or within 8" of an enemy model" but because its worded like that I'd say its just for the 8" rule, backed up by the fact people think rangers are poor due to the fact they can't march in woods so only go 1.5" a turn.

[Daft]

But dwarfs can march in a forest just at half speed due to the terrain.

[H33D]

Dwarf Army Book, pg. 28- "Relentless- A dwarf on the march is as implacable as the turning of the years, and just as impossible to halt. Dwarf unit may march even if there are enemy close enough to inhibit march moves."

That is the exact quote, which nowhere mentions always being able to march, as I misquoted earlier (sincerest apologies fellow dawi!), just being able to march even if march-blocked, basically.

Just my honest opinion, march on!

[Daft]

H33D, on 06 February 2010 - 04:39 AM, said:

Dwarf Army Book, pg. 28- "Relentless- A dwarf on the march is as implacable as the turning of the years, and just as impossible to halt. Dwarf unit may march even if there are enemy close enough to inhibit march moves."

That is the exact quote, which nowhere mentions always being able to march, as I misquoted earlier (sincerest apologies fellow dawi!), just being able to march even if march-blocked, basically.

Just my honest opinion, march on!

No no, have a brew on me. I was incorrect so I should pay for the beer at least.

3 inches it is then. But remember an extra 3 inches is longer than most people seem to think.

*Self edited to not offend with an off color three inch joke.*

[Bonecrusher]

Daft, on 06 February 2010 - 02:23 AM, said:

But dwarfs can march in a forest just at half speed due to the terrain.

Thanks for the exact quote, so dwarfs are moving 1.5" through forests as you can't march through forests.

[Magnar Gurnisson]

1.5 inch trough forest!!!

Can someone give us back the forester rule please?

10 or 11 inches with anvil is the majorty of the time quite enough to charge a warmachine.

[Gramnir]

Is there any rule to prevent people from placing the miners on one long torpedo file? that way 7 miners could get pretty far with an anvilfuelled charge:
7*20mm + 3" + 6" = far

I personally think its just creative use of a unit, but some people may see it as cheating

[David L]

Gramnir, on 08 February 2010 - 11:40 AM, said:

I personally think some people may see it as cheating

That is the "rule" that prevents it.

This post has been edited by David L: 09 February 2010 - 02:46 PM

[H33D]

I dont see it as cheating at all. They are arriving from the table edge in any formation they want. They didn't ACTUALLY pursue off the table, so the formation is up to you. Miners are unlike any other unit in the game, as they arrive from 'underground' but come in from the table edge. I think you should be able to do whatever you want with them as long as they don't move farther than allowed (normal move + anvil move). It sort of seems to be one their their few strength that they should arrive however they want. Its not like they have as powerful of an arrival ability as tomb scorpions' 'it came from below' or something.

[Daft]

It is called the conga line. It is within the scope of the rules but very poor form. You are basically doing your damdest to get every little advantage you could possibly get.

Tell me, how would you feel about an undead opponent that goes with a minimum sized core list, and 4 vampires so he has points to get all the goodies he can and then proceeds to raise about 50 ghouls per turn. That is the equivalent of about 400 pts in one turn that you can't do a whole lot to stop. It is within the rules of the game, but it is awefully tough to keep his hard hitters from smacking you around much less kill an extra 400 pts of models each turn.