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Your Wishes For Our 7Th Ed Book.


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#21 jayfuture187

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 01:24 PM

How are Gyrocopters a completely random technology when we have Ironclads and submarines? The Gyrocopter was developed to reconnect the holds because the underway is to badly damaged in places to get messages through, They act as scouts for the karaks and give early notice of greenskin armys coming from the eastern worlds edge mountins! Is it as far fetched as a Rune powered mechanical arm? or the Spirit of Grungni? Organ Guns & Flame Cannons? If anyrhing our army books dont reflect enough on the inginuety of the Dawi race while the Skaven get Doomwheels, Warpfire throwers, Poisened wind mortars etc which where made by reverse engineering Dawi technology in the first place?

Edited by jayfuture187, 16 January 2010 - 01:24 PM.


#22 Thoin Ironfist

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 09:47 PM

How are Gyrocopters a completely random technology when we have Ironclads and submarines? The Gyrocopter was developed to reconnect the holds because the underway is to badly damaged in places to get messages through, They act as scouts for the karaks and give early notice of greenskin armys coming from the eastern worlds edge mountins! Is it as far fetched as a Rune powered mechanical arm? or the Spirit of Grungni? Organ Guns & Flame Cannons? If anyrhing our army books dont reflect enough on the inginuety of the Dawi race while the Skaven get Doomwheels, Warpfire throwers, Poisened wind mortars etc which where made by reverse engineering Dawi technology in the first place?


More great points. I agree completely Jay.

#23 Orcslicer

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 11:44 PM

Tattoos and abilities for slayers would be a rather nice upgrade.

The Golem is actually somewhat interesting idea. The dwarves lack a monster, and this one isn't that far fetched.

I also agree with strengthening our magic phase. The idea of dwarf priests characters is a good one, and fits in well with Stone and Steel. It might be a bit complicated, but you could have bound spell lores kind of like for tomb kings.
- Valaya would be healing/light focused
- Grimnir mostly combat based: giving extra attacks or strength or toughness for a turn, make a unit unbreakable, that kind of thing...
- Gazul: death/hallucination, perhaps making a dwarf unit ethereal (long fallen comrades fight alongside the dwarfs once more), a prayer to make units fear causing, hallucinations to cause enemy units to move out of position or panic.
- Grungni: terrain and equipment based, such as causing mountains to erupt from the ground, rerolling attacks/armour saves, that kind of thing.

Just a few ideas :)

Edited by Orcslicer, 16 January 2010 - 11:45 PM.


#24 Iron Wolf

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 05:46 PM

They aren't going to include anything that isn't Dwarfish. So no:

Non-dwarven units (Golems?)
Magic that doesn't stem from Runes
War Machines more radical than a Gyrocopter/Flame Cannon
Higher than 3 Move

At least I really don't think they will.

#25 Ebrick

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 07:21 PM

well, they did significantly reduce the randomness of skaven, so maybe if we just pray a bit, we'll get something that reduces our suck.

#26 Iron Wolf

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 08:48 PM

I would like it more if they made our strengths stronger (shooting/close combat/runic magic/dispelling) rather than beef up our weaknesses (movement/casting spells). I wouldn't mind at all if they implemented small special rules here and there, but nothing that is army-wide that will nullify our weaknesses.

What I would personally recommend is:

1) A lot of runes should be changed in order to tempt experienced players to dabble in the uncommon. Who takes the master rune of flight unless they are just having fun? Or Skalf Blackhammer? If they made it possible to take effective runic combinations with all of the runes rather than the same one or two everyone always takes I would like that.

2) Our close combat troops are incredible, but they are losing effectiveness with each new enemy army codex. Simplifying them by making Rangers and Longbeards a separate unit and special choices would be nice. Miners should be core but not count towards core minimum, and also should be able to charge on arrival. Slayers and Rangers should skirmish. Ironbreakers should negate enemy charge bonuses.

3) Allowing gyrocopters to be a mount for a Master Engineer, whose personal runes affect the gyrocopter (armor saves and attack runes). Also give gyrocopters a fly-through attack like those tzeentch things, perhaps dropping bombs.

4) Flame cannons should only be 120 points, or given extra range.

5) Bugman sucks. Make him good.

6) Thorek is way too good. Make him less god-like, but more reliable. (And hopefully less expensive...) Same with anvil itself.

That is all I can think of. Maybe one or two are even a littel too extreme (gyrocopter)

#27 Thorgrimm14

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 09:42 PM

I have no wishes for 7th ed, but I do have some for 8th edition ;)

Focus on traditional dwarven virtues, and break the cookie-cutter combos so we get to shake our armies up abit.

Lords & Heroes
1) Dwarf Lords: should grant non-persisting stubbornness to any unit he joins.
2) Anvil of Doom: is a crutch atm. Needs a complete overhaul.
3) master engineers should grant benefits to our newfangled warmachines as well

Core
4) Rangers should get their own unit entry (and forresters + skirmish, please)
5) Miners as core. They can bring along an ironbreaker unit of equal or smaller size through underground advance
6) Longbeard upgrade can be bought for any core unit type except thunderers. Grants+1 WS, BS & S.

Special
7) Hammerers are limited to one per Dwarf Lord and is a rare unit choice. Loses stubborn and shield option. Gains gromril armor and +1A

8 ) Slayers gain 6+ ward save (5+ for characters)

9) Ironbreakers get Rune of stone in addition to current equipment

Rare
10) Rebalance all newfangled war machines to encourage diversty of choice

Runes
11) remove master rune status on strollaz, Kragg, Challenge. 5 pts cost reduction in all runes over 30 points. All champions in Longbeard, Ironbreaker, Hammerer units get a 25pts runic allowance.

Other
12) Bring back our special characters dang nabbit! :)

#28 Dorack

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 11:27 AM

Last week I read the WHF manual again, from first to last page, and as I read I wrote down some notes on what slight tweaks on rules will help overcome our hindrances, without loosing our fluff. Here they are:

Greater freedom of manouvres: keeping our base movement, allow us to do advanced manouvres (like turning 180 degrees) while marching. This will prevent us to go trotting around the field, but let´s us react better to the enemy movement and shows the dwarfs superior martial training and discipline.

Keeping # of attacks after casualties: Dwarfs advance to fill the gaps AND to return the attacks. No one surprises a dwarf!

Dwarfs are never outnumbered: Dwarfs never grant the enemy any bonus or special rule for being outnumbered (no +1 to CR, no fear autobreak, etc.). Fluffwise, dwarfs have always been outnumbered! By now any dwarf warrior expects nothing different than being outnumbered, so they just grumble it and fight on.

Ranks & Files: either let dwarfs get the bonus with only 4 miniatures frontage, or if the "larger frontage wins" rule is included, let us sweat it.

Stubborness for all: this has been mentioned lots of times before, just wanted to include it here.

New weapon options:
  • Throwing axes available for most troops.
  • New Dwarf Halberd: fight in 2 ranks, strikes last, requires 2 hands, +1 or +2 to strenght, cost?
New armor options: Allow heavy armor for missile troops. Allow better than standard shield for some infantry.



Slayers with deathstrike and nothing like frenzy. Just an opinion.


I´m fully aware that all this combined would be too much, but maybe 1 or 2 of them get picked uo for final print... one can wish.

Edited by Dorack, 20 January 2010 - 11:29 AM.


#29 Karak_Varn_Raider

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 09:49 PM

My hopes are cheaper miners (and making them a friggin' core choice instead of "special" for some reason) and being able to use blasting charges offensively, firing thunderers in two ranks or giving dwarfs some kind of move-and-shoot other than throwing axes (or else we just can't fight woodies), and rangers that can MOVE THROUGH FREAKING WOODS.

I agree with a lot of what's already been said, except for mose of the new unit types that have been suggested. I don't want dwarves to become like all the other armies and lose their feel, although some new stuff would definitely be nice.

Maybe if runesmiths or runelords had some ability other than just dispelling? Like a mini anvil of doom that they could carry around with them? Because right now if you take runesmiths and you end up fighting a non-magic army, that's 300 points flushed down the toilet.

#30 Odin Morgrimmsson

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 10:45 PM

CORE
Warriors/Longbeards - same
Rangers - separate unit, and get skirmish.
Thunderers - same
Quarrellers - same

SPECIAL
Miners - stay special, they perform a specific tactical role so should be special. Should arrive anywhere on the board - and with a bang! Something like on the turn they arrive place the big template anywhere on the board, then scatter, and any unit hit takes hits as the Miners blast out of the earth.
Trollslayers - totally reworked. Skirmish, two attacks, ward save vs. missile attacks. They should be our hammer unit, something people are scared of rather than a tarpit flank holder.
Ironbreakers - need something different, but I'm not sure what... they need to fill a specific role, which makes them different to Warriors, Longbeards & Hammers.
Cannon - d6 wounds, not d3. I want to see cannons in Dwarf armies, not bolt throwers.
Bolt Thrower - same
Grudge Thrower - same

RARE
Hammerers - move to rare as they should be rarely seen except as the lord's bodyguard, but one unit as core if led by a lord - instead of the current Longbeard rule. Lose shield option, and gain gromril as others have said.
Organ Gun - same
Flame Cannon - points drop.
Gyrocopter - maybe get bombs back

Other Ideas:
- Master Engineer replaced by Guildmaster - upgraded to Engineer, Master Brewer, Underwarden (Miner).
- Anvil of Doom - completely reworked, but I don't know how.
- Runesmiths - I think need a function within the list other than just adding dispel dice...don't know what.

Edited by Odin Morgrimmsson, 20 January 2010 - 10:49 PM.


#31 Ranulf Doomhammer

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 12:49 PM

Following the thread about our fluff in the Beastman book, I'd like to add that I want to see the Dwarfs end up on the winning end of something. A complete retaking of Karak Eight Peaks with Skarsnik either dead or pushed out of the hold seems like an idea to me, or at least something along those lines suck as getting Karak Varn back. But if the latter, I'd also like to see Kazador and friends get revenge from Gorfang Rotgut. In fact, some fluff along those lines would go well with adding him as a special character again.

Oh, and I really like the Guildmaster idea too.

#32 jayfuture187

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 11:03 PM

:guinesssmilie:

Following the thread about our fluff in the Beastman book, I'd like to add that I want to see the Dwarfs end up on the winning end of something. A complete retaking of Karak Eight Peaks with Skarsnik either dead or pushed out of the hold seems like an idea to me, or at least something along those lines suck as getting Karak Varn back. But if the latter, I'd also like to see Kazador and friends get revenge from Gorfang Rotgut. In fact, some fluff along those lines would go well with adding him as a special character again.

Oh, and I really like the Guildmaster idea too.


Fluff should be the first thing that gets attention and i agree with this completely! Karak-Eight peaks should be re-conquered and the grobi filth given a good thrashing! Skarsnik should be captured and taken back to Karaz-A-Karak and face public Execution by the High King himself? Karak Varns lost to us for good unfortunatly so maybe the retaking of mount Gunbad by King Kazador just to give him some story time fluff wise? GW should just put the fluff in the Hands of some one who actually cares about the Dwarfs as a Race!

#33 diehard0123

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 11:43 PM

Hatred towards High Elfs
Beef up the runelords/runesmiths by giving the some runes that are more than one use only, more dispell abilities overall.
I agree with bringing back the special charaters
I also like the idea of halbreds, another possibility is adding a "Dwarf charge" much like the Ogres Bull Charge rule.
Be able to upgrade Thunderers to a Special choice "Dwarf long rife unit" no half range modifier.
Thunderers need 2 attacks for front rank.

#34 Bonecrusher

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 01:07 AM

Hatred towards High Elfs
Beef up the runelords/runesmiths by giving the some runes that are more than one use only, more dispell abilities overall.
I agree with bringing back the special charaters
I also like the idea of halbreds, another possibility is adding a "Dwarf charge" much like the Ogres Bull Charge rule.
Be able to upgrade Thunderers to a Special choice "Dwarf long rife unit" no half range modifier.
Thunderers need 2 attacks for front rank.



Think hatred towards Skaven is more fluffly than elves, seeing as dwarfs will ally with HE if need be.
I'd love to have a dwarf counter charge.
I think thunderers aren't the unit that requires two ranks, though thunderers could have a special rule "Fix Bayonets!!" counts as having spears in combat, would be better.

#35 Ranulf Doomhammer

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 01:21 AM

:guinesssmilie:

Following the thread about our fluff in the Beastman book, I'd like to add that I want to see the Dwarfs end up on the winning end of something. A complete retaking of Karak Eight Peaks with Skarsnik either dead or pushed out of the hold seems like an idea to me, or at least something along those lines suck as getting Karak Varn back. But if the latter, I'd also like to see Kazador and friends get revenge from Gorfang Rotgut. In fact, some fluff along those lines would go well with adding him as a special character again.

Oh, and I really like the Guildmaster idea too.


Fluff should be the first thing that gets attention and i agree with this completely! Karak-Eight peaks should be re-conquered and the grobi filth given a good thrashing! Skarsnik should be captured and taken back to Karaz-A-Karak and face public Execution by the High King himself? Karak Varns lost to us for good unfortunatly so maybe the retaking of mount Gunbad by King Kazador just to give him some story time fluff wise? GW should just put the fluff in the Hands of some one who actually cares about the Dwarfs as a Race!


Really? Is Karak Varn lost for good? Where is that stated? If so, then I seriously need to brush up on my fluff knowledge.

I also like the idea of a retaking of Mount Gunbad; in fact, I wrote a short story by that very title years ago myself. But it doesn't seem like something Kazador would do as he is in Karak Azul and that's pretty far away from Gunbad, and frankly, I would really prefer getting Eight Peaks (or Karak Azgal, or Varn, or Ungor, etc) back,

Edited by RanulfDoomhammer, 24 January 2010 - 01:28 AM.


#36 diehard0123

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 02:12 AM

Hatred towards High Elfs
Beef up the runelords/runesmiths by giving the some runes that are more than one use only, more dispell abilities overall.
I agree with bringing back the special charaters
I also like the idea of halbreds, another possibility is adding a "Dwarf charge" much like the Ogres Bull Charge rule.
Be able to upgrade Thunderers to a Special choice "Dwarf long rife unit" no half range modifier.
Thunderers need 2 attacks for front rank.



Think hatred towards Skaven is more fluffly than elves, seeing as dwarfs will ally with HE if need be.
I'd love to have a dwarf counter charge.
I think thunderers aren't the unit that requires two ranks, though thunderers could have a special rule "Fix Bayonets!!" counts as having spears in combat, would be better.

Soory I meant to type hammerers

#37 Iron Wolf

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 03:37 AM

Maybe some more unique equipment could help out a bit, making our units unique and giving them more specialized roles in combat:

1) Gromril Shield - Units that can normally take shields for +1 pt/model can take gromril shields for +2 pts/model instead, giving the bearer an additional +1 to armor saves. When a unit with gromril shields is charged, the charging unit must roll a D6. On a 4+, non-cavalry units lose charging bonuses. On a 3+, cavalry units (or mounted characters) lose charging bonuses. This is only effective when charged to the front.

2) Thunderer Bayonet - Thunderers now have large knives mounted on the front of their handguns, allowing them to stand-and-shoot and quickly go into hand-to-hand combat mode without delay. This would allow them to stand-and-shoot without penalty.

3) Steam Drill / Flame Cannon - The Steam Drill option is still available, but the Flame Cannon can be taken with the Miners instead. The steam drill is crewed by a prospector. Flame cannons are a 100 point cost as a miner unit bonus or individual war machine. Flame Cannons are a detached unit that does not need to stay with the parent unit, and needs to have 3 miners to act as crew. Steam Drill is 50 points, is 40 mm x 40 mm, deploys in the front of the unit, and is US 3 (including prospector). The Steam Drill causes D6 S4 impact hits that ignore armor, as well as D3 S4 armor piercing normal hits in combat at the prospectors initiative (the prospector uses this ability and so does not get attacks in combat). The flame cannon 'detachment' counts as a rare choice in addition to the miners unit, and the crew have the same 'gunner's pride' rule that normal war machine crew but are still miners (same stats and equipment).

And no more blasting charges unless it is a 'trap' instead of some never-used stand and shoot reaction. Units of miners may charge on arrival at all times, but may re-roll arrival AND add D6+1" to their charge distance if they have a steam drill!

Also, flame cannons are just as reliable as a regular cannon, unless crewed by inexperienced miners, which it still gets the same misfire table it has currently.

4) Slayer Axes - Slayer Axes work the same way as far as going from great weapon to two hand-weapons each round of combat. However, they function similar to how doomseeker's attacks work. Whenever a slayer rolls a successful hit on a model, they get an additional attack on each model in base to base contact with that model. The additional hits to not get this same bonus. This is due to the hyper-aggressive combat style of the Slayers. Also, due to the fact that Slayers are so intimidating, enemies are at -1 to hit them in combat and with shooting.

5) Throwing Axes - Warriors, Longbeards, Rangers, Quarrellers, Thanes, and Dwarf Lords may be equipped with Throwing axes. The new bonus about this is that it counts as an additional hand weapon for Dwarves! They also get no stand-and-shoot penalty (although I don't remember if they already don't because of a thrown weapon).

6) Rune Hammer - Great Weapon option for Runelords, Runesmiths, and Hammerers. Grants MR (1) to the unit. 6 pts for Runelord, 5 pts for Runesmith, and and additional +1 pt for Hammerers. Runelords and Runesmiths can still inscribe any runes on a Rune Hammer but it will only lose its great weapon abilities (still MR (1)).

7) Superior Quarreller - Quarrellers developed their own SUPERIOR version of Dark Elf Repeater Crossbows. Quarrellers may now move-and-shoot, or fire multiple shots without moving AND with no penalty for multiple shots. This is a +1 pt/model upgrade for quarrellers from a normal quarreller crossbow. Throwing axes may not be taken if a superior quarreller is taken.

8) Gyrocopter - Works the same, but may drop bombs. This does D6 strength 3 flaming attacks on up to one enemy unit it flies over per turn. (dwarf player's choice)

9) Cannon - Works the same, but does D6 wounds. Empire shmempire.

That is all I can think of for the moment. I don't think any of them are too overbearing but I'm not the expert here. What do you guys think?

#38 jayfuture187

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 02:28 PM

Sorry got my Dawi history mixed up! Gorfang Rotguts fortress is Black Crag the old hold of Karak Drazh, Mount Gunbad is an old mining colony that swore oaths of fealty to the kings of Zhufbar. Karak Varns lost forever because the last Throng to try and retake the hold found that a large skaven presence had recolonized the hold since Redmane's time.with considerable losses the thane of the throng decided that the skaven presence so close to Zhufbar, Kara-A-Karak, Karak Hirn was to much of a threat and without a huge undertaking and loss of dwarf lives could not be cleared out so the decision was made to breach the cliff walls that separated Karak Varn from the deep waters of Black water flooding the hold for Millennia to come!

Edited by jayfuture187, 24 January 2010 - 02:29 PM.


#39 Ranulf Doomhammer

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 05:44 PM

Sorry got my Dawi history mixed up! Gorfang Rotguts fortress is Black Crag the old hold of Karak Drazh, Mount Gunbad is an old mining colony that swore oaths of fealty to the kings of Zhufbar. Karak Varns lost forever because the last Throng to try and retake the hold found that a large skaven presence had recolonized the hold since Redmane's time.with considerable losses the thane of the throng decided that the skaven presence so close to Zhufbar, Kara-A-Karak, Karak Hirn was to much of a threat and without a huge undertaking and loss of dwarf lives could not be cleared out so the decision was made to breach the cliff walls that separated Karak Varn from the deep waters of Black water flooding the hold for Millennia to come!


Is this in Oathbreaker?

#40 jayfuture187

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 10:00 PM

Is this in Oathbreaker?


Yeah it is. ive tried not to go into to much detail with names and plot turns and stuff. sorry if there are any spoilers, to be honest i haven't read it in a while and the main reasons why the skaven are there elude me!




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