8 replies to this topic

['ren]

I have been neglectfull. I have not been on this forum for the better part of this year, having given up on fantasy for the time being. (there are many, many forums dedicated to the why of that.....) But in the last few weeks, a topic on another forum has drawn my interest in a very specific and obsessive(sp?) way: Dwarves in space, or to be specific, the revival of "squats" as a viable race in 40k.

I will not lie to you here, i play space marines, space marines and more space marines.... but dwarves have always been my love. Space marines are simply as close as you can get to the rules and fluff IMO for 40k.

If you have time, you should read this topic: http://www.warseer.c...ead.php?t=89616

If any are interested, i would appreciate help with translating the Dwarf army book to the 40k setting. Im only one guy, and one guy on his own cant possibly hope to balance or fluff out a proper piece of workmanship without serious holes, bad rules, and useless entries!

(mine is one of the last posts currently, having come upon the topic just recently, but everthing suggested is worth a read as far as im concerned. )

[Thoin Ironfist]

I'm not sure how I would like Space Dwarves. The army would have to be constructed very well and have good fluff too. I'm not big into the 40K fluff, but I'd say if Dwarves fit in anywhere it would be with the Adeptus Mechanicus, right?

['ren]

Cheers for the reply.

Yes, that is an option and i believe they (the original pre-2nd edition squats) were affiliated, although not dominated, by the imperium.
The fluff wouldn't have to change much, Orc's become Orks, Elves become Eldar and Skaven become Tyranids
for lack of a better parallel. I don't want to try to wedge these guys into "Imperial Gothic", but rather another race that is getting on just fine by itself. Besides, i like the Dwarf fluff as it stands now!

As for army construction, I basically just tried to transfer as much as i could from the fantasy system into the 40k one. (Some people probably won't like what i did with some of the options, but i did give Hammerers and Ironbreakers
very defined and specific roles, and i had to boost the Artillery to make it worth using given 40k's cruddy artillery rules.
The quick ruleset i drew up allows three extreme army compositions: Horde, Elite, and Gunline.
As it stands, i actually think Horde is the strongest and could use some toning down, but if taken as a balanced list
i think they would be quite fluffy and a challenge to face.

I've got the list stored here: http://www.thousand-sons.co.uk/rules/ (Thank you Daemonkin)

Fluff suggestions, rules tweaks, unit design and play testing are all very much welcome!

One change i made since uploading the list: Engineers don't get +1 per turn for failed repair attempts, they get it for each previous failed attempt so far. The
other way seemed way too powerfull!

Edited by 'ren, 19 November 2009 - 05:54 AM.

[Borin Sourfist]

The main problem is that the Dwarf archetype has already been used in 40K, it's the Space Wolves.
Beer, facial hair, mountains, sagas, fighting and feasting, veneration of the ancestors etc.

All the old Squat choices can be fielded with the Space Wolf codex.

Warlord = Wolflord
Ancestor = Rune Priest
Engineer = Iron Priest
Wolf Guard = Hearth Guard (in power or termi/exo armour)
Grey Hunters = Warriors
Long Fangs (No direct correlation with the old Squat lists, but who wouldn't like Dwarfs with heavy weapons)
Bikes = Bikes
Attack Bikes = Trikes
Landspeeder = Gyrocopter (Ok, this was an Epic40K choice, but would make a cool 40K conversion)
Tanks = Tanks

And those new 'Lone Wolf' dudes, Space Wolves who've lost their pack and take all the best weapons they can and seek a glorious death in battle, to me that sounds like power-armoured Slayers. Take a look at the new SWs on GW's site. Quite a few have big orange hair.


That is GWs problem with Squats. How do you take the recognisable Dwarf Archetype and put it in 40K with a comprehensive and coherent background and fluff, yet make it different to Space Wolves.

I'd just use the SW codex, but if I was to try to make my own I'd start with the SW codex, change power armour for carapace armour and either increase their toughness to 5 or give them 'feel no pain' to represent dwarfy toughness. That would be my starting point and I'd tweak it from there.

Edited by Borin Sourfist, 19 November 2009 - 10:05 AM.

['ren]

Good point there, but i still see there being a place for them.
Sure SW has the whole drunken viking thing going, but i see dwarves as representing the opposite side of that coin:
Where the Woofs are wild and barbaric, the "squats" are ordered and driven. Sure they share a vice, (they like the sauce) and some units mirror one another, but they could easily be as different as Eldar and Dark Eldar who share nought but toughness 3 so to speak.
Of course i've yet to actually read the Wolf codex, so i can't soap box about fluff comparisons too much as i only have memories of 2nd edition to go by. But i have seen a LOT of "counts as" lists being made from it, as i did for marines before it, so it's easy to see why i shy away from using it as a template.

Being a compressed stat environment, T4 is very good already for a basic trooper in 40k so i basically gave the list army-wide "slow and purposefull" instead to represent their grim determination. It makes them slow to be sure, but they can still move and shoot at full effectiveness. Noise marines pay 5pts a pop for a similar ability, on top of being more than twice as expensive as the basic warrior i listed.

Im working night shift tomorrow, (no boss to look busy for) so i might try and get some fluff cobbled together from the bits and pieces i know about Squats, and what i remember from the Dwarf army book. Untill i can get around to doing a test sculpt or two, the fluff i make will be the only reference anybody has to how i see them in terms of look and feel.

[troll2020]

i have about 15 or so squats im currently repainting il post a few pics when i get a few done.
would post some info on here about squats ,but its really late my eyes are like sandpaper .so i haven't really looked to hard at the other posts sorry ppl.i may just fire them into a guard army hey they used to have beastmen in there so why not use the squat models for something other than a dust magnet

['ren]

Still working on the fluff, it's mostly ripped straight from Lexicanim so far(Credit to those that made my shameless plagerism possible)but im slowly adding in Dwarf elements and blending it with my own ideas.

Both the current version of the ruleset and the WIP of the fluff can be found here: http://www.thousand-sons.co.uk/rules/

As always, comments and observations are highly welcome

[zamuel30]

I will help. Giive me an email And well talk about it

['ren]

Done.