10 replies to this topic

[Grimstonefire]

A few things I have been thinking outside the box to

a) Allow dwarfs to play in an agressive way, not just defensive relying on gunlines
b.) make certain things more viable

So here is the shortlist of things (some of which I've shamelessly stolen from other threads here)

CORE

Warriors (same)

Thunderers: Gain upgrade for Sniper (same equivalent as empire handgunners)

Quarrellers: Lose great weapon

Longbeards:
Here I have a radical idea that some will probably hate... All units except Slayers can upgrade any number of models to be Longbeards! They gain +1WS and +1S (to a maximum of S4). If a unit is entirely composed of longbeards they gain the Immune to Panic and Old Grumblers rules. I'm not sure about whether to include any limitations on these at all? It would only make Dwarf armies smaller as they would be much more expensive. +3pts/ model for core and miners, +1pt Hammerers and Ironbreakers.

They are treated as champions for wound allocation, but cannot give or accept challenges, move within units or benefit from the "Look out Sir!" rule.

I never understood why veteran miners, or thunderers etc would suddenly leave all their mates behind and go to being only warriors. It may not match their previous 300 years of skills. So keeping them in the same units makes more sense than a separate one imo.

Rangers: Separate unit again
May take Great weapon, crossbow, throwing axes, shield
Scouts, Treat Difficult Terrain as Open Terrain


SPECIAL

Hammerers: 13pts. Gain Gromril Armour but lose shield.

Slayers: 2 Attacks. Killing Blow, Slayer, Unbreakable, Slayer Axes 14pts
Options
Wards of Grimnir (Magic Resistance (1) (+1pt/model)
Giant Slayer = +1S +1WS +1I (5pts/model)
Doomseeker = Replaces slayer axes and normal attack with D3+1 autohits. (+5pts/ model?). Any number can be upgraded, including Giantslayers.

Giantslayers are treated as champions for wound allocation, but cannot give or accept challenges, move within units or benefit from the "Look out Sir!" rule.

Ironbreakers: 13pts/ model. Immune to panic (when you're in a tunnel fight there's nowhere to run).

Cannon: Same

Bolt thrower: Same

Grudge Thrower: Same

Miners: (shamelessly stolen)
Underground Advance changed to mimic the TK 'it came from below rule' with the exception that Miners may not charge the turn they appear and the 'Mishap' table changed to: 1: Collapse! Unit lost and enemy awarded VP, 2-3: Gotten Lost, the unit does not appear but no VP are scored for them 4-6 The unit appear on the mark but may not move the turn they appear. Also one unit get the option to carry a Runic Banner worth up to 25 pts


RARE

Organ Gun: 125 pts

Flame Cannon: 130prs

Gyrocopter: 2 for 1 rare slot
May be a mount for Master Engineer
4 Wounds

Options:
Blasting Charges: 30 pts. Rules as with miners. Can be used through the whole battle.
Reinforcements: The gyrocopter is modified to be able to carry small units far behind enemy lines. It may carry up to 10 Dwarfs and will deploy them into battle (it cannot pick up troops) (I haven't figured out the exact rules yet). Movement reduced to 15".
Ironsides: Armour save is increased to 3+


LORD/ HERO
I haven't put much thought into these, but I did have an idea for a Grudge Table. Basically similar to the Space Wolves honour things. It would include some of the slayer skills from SoC. Possibly also a Master rune of Challenge equivalent so that Daemonslayers can take it. Grudge rune equivalent would be here as well. These would have potential downsides to balance out.


Finally, and probably the most controversial... I have an idea that may 'solve' the movement issue. Basically either by a new rare war machine or possibly even an extension of the Miners rules, units may be deployed onto the battlefield via tunnels! Before I get a load of tankards thrown at me, hear me out.

Aside from Skaven no other race in the warhammer world is capable of digging tunnels fast enough to move whole units of tunnellers/ miners onto the battlefield during a battle. Imo Dwarf tunnels would be much better than skaven ones as they would be a lot less likely to collapse immediately behind them, they would be strong enough to allow at least one unit to follow.

So why not allow another unit to appear behind the Miners?! You could have a Tunnel Entrance Point, and then you have to place both units within 2" of it the turn they appear. It would need serious playtesting to find a suitable downside to this (there would need to be one). But it's an idea for overcoming the movement issue I haven't seen before.

This and the gyro rule would allow the Dwarfs the option to play considerably faster without resorting to dwarf cavalry or increase to M4.

Edited by Grimstonefire, 10 October 2009 - 05:46 PM.

[Borin Sourfist]

8th ed? We haven't even had our 7th ed book yet!

How about this for increasing Dwarf maneuverability?

1) Strollaz's Rune can be used once per game (as now) but in any turn (not just before the battle).

2) Split the anvil runes into 3 Talismanic runes that a normal Runesmith could carry. If they were 50pts each (for example) a Runesmith could carry Rune of Oath and Honour and a spellbreaker. Only a Runelord could get all three with the Anvil.

[Rojo]

We need a Rare troop choice.
What about a flamers unit. Common sense would say that mining Dwarfs would come across gas from time to time and a heavily armoured dwarf with a flame thrower could clear it. The models would have a thick leather apron and goggles, or even better, a welders mask (similar to the coverted engineer model in the Army Book by Joseph Wiltshire). Something along the lines of 14 pts each, 4 or 5+ AS, immune to fire, causes Fear! Flame Thrower fires 8 to 12 inches (Str 4, - 1 AS) and can Stand and Shoot with chargers taking panic test unless immune to fear/terror.

[Axebearer]

Wouldnt using a flame thrower make the gas explode collapsing the tunnel?

[Rojo]

Not a dwarf tunnel! Natural gas does expand when ignited (about 270 times the volume) but down the path of least resistance (down the tunnel). Igniting a gas makes sure that there is none left, where as venting is less certain.

[Dorack]

Ok, some beardling ideas for future editions (maybe they are dead horses, maybe they were present in previous editions and rightfully taken out, can´t know...)

More weapon selection: I can see dwarfs with spears, which will help us a lot with our few numbers. Also the option of throwing axes for most troops, as they go great fluff wise. Maybe other more exotic weapons for some troops.

Heavy armor options for all troops. Also maybe some "great shield" as I saw in some LOTR dwarf minis. Combined with spears it would be awesome...

Beasts of war? I feel that the dwarf army lacks some variety in figures: we have all dwarfs + warmachines mostly... maybe adding war mastiffs that act like war herds? I know that dwarf cavalry is mostly frowned upon.

Slayers with a chance of a final attack when they are killed on hand to hand combat.

Chariot/tank: It would be nice to have one. Either animal or steam propelled.

Hero carrying gyrocopter: gyro can carry another dwarf and place it on the ground. I can see uses in dropping adragonslayer behind enemy lines.

Halfling skirmishers.

[Grimstonefire]

There's some good ideas in there.

I particularly like the 'another attack after last wound' slayers.

I've written something similar to that for a chaos dwarf unit. I'll have to find it. Aside from possibly Great Eagles as rare I'm not so keen on adding beasts to the list.


Another idea for the day:

Army wide special rule:

Strong as Mountains (the other WIP name was 'Nothing Surprises a Dwarf)

Dwarfs may choose to use this as part of their Hold reaction.

As long as the unit is 5 models wide on the side they are engaged in close combat they will not lose their rank bonus for being charged in the rear/ flank, and the enemy will not gain a combat bonus for doing so. The side they are charged on is treated as being the 'front' for the purposes of removing casualties.

If they are charged from the front and rear the combat is resolved as normal from the rulebook.



So to clarify, if they are flank or rear charged only they will not lose anything, it would be as if they had done a free reform when charged. If they then get charged in a flank they will keep the Strong as Mountains bonus only as long as the 'flank' they are fighting on remains 5 models wide, as you have to take the casualties out from somewhere.

If you are charged front and rear you cannot take casualties out from the middle, so it's resolved as normal.

[Dorack]

Actually, giving Dwarfs special halberds that you can use from a 2nd rank sounds much cooler and proper from a fluf point of view.

[Ulric Stoutheart]

I like the idea of throwing axe upgrades for Warriors and Longbeards. Give us some more stand-and-shoot and move-and-fire options.

There should be rules showing just how much better our warmachines are than other races. Maybe a cannon misfire table like:
1: Explodes
2-3: May not fire this turn or next
4-5: May not fire this turn
6: Not a misfire! Counts as rolling a 12 on misfire die

Rangers need to be skirmishers as well as scouts. Either that or add halfling skirmishers as someone else mentioned.

Thunderers should be multishot x2 to reflect how much more easily dwarf handguns can be loaded. Either that, or let Thunderers fire in one extra rank (eg, two normally, three at a large target or on a hill) to reflect the dawi in back passing their guns forward and acting as loaders.

Also, why do the humans get a tank and we don't? There's no reason dwarf engineers shouldn't have come up with steam tank by now as a Rare choice. If we can build a flying machine, we can build an armourer chariot.

Oh, and bring back the gyrocopter's bombing runs (the model still has two little bombs underneath it, after all). Counts as a S3/6 stone thrower but has to be flown over a unit to use it.

[Tah Kazak Rik]

The only things I want to see in our next book are:

Slayer Skills all the skills from SoC
Slayer tattoos, but for unit magic resist, for dragon slyr 6+ ward, and for daemon 5+ ward.

Shield wall, if a unit is armed with shields they recieve +2 to AS when they are charged.

ability to have 0+ AS

The Ability to Auto wound (change Skalf back!)

Gyrocopter Steam Gun Str 4 and have it have throwing bombs
Throwing Bombs: Str 4, with 6" range. Roll to hit like normal, but then roll the scatter dice. Small blast template

Flame Cannon, cancel armour saves, it is frickin boiling oil and tar it seeps through cracks.

Rangers limit should be removed. Some armies are above ground, not simply a unit.

Longbeards limit removed from 0-1 to 0-2. Not including Royal Blood.

Other than that I wish for nothing else.

Edited by Tah Kazak Rik, 13 October 2009 - 07:39 PM.

[Grimstonefire]

Seeing as I already have a topic open here.

A simple idea for considerably helping the dwarfs in the movement phase without being too controversial.


At the start of every movement phase if a unit passes a leadership test it may make a free reform.