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Spellbreaker Guide - Dark Magic


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#1 David L

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 06:32 PM

Dwarf Spellbreaker Guide - Dark Magic (Dark Elves only)

The Lore of Dark Magic has been greatly improved in the latest Dark Elf army book (2008). It is a good lore with a lot of flexibility.

Dark Elves are capable of generating a really unpleasant number of power dice. A lord can have a bound item that casts the Power of Darkness spell. Plus they all can cast that spell, because they always know it in addition to normal spells. Another character can have the Sacrifical Dagger, which lets them kill one of their own troops (DE warriors are trash) for another power dice ON EACH SPELL. Almost every DE list that attempts to have a real magic phase will have the Sacrifical Dagger. In other words, a lord and a level 2, which is nominally just 8 power dice, can reasonably produce 16+ dice for real spells every phase.

Because of the power dice situation, slowing Dark Elf magic is not about managing their power dice. They have enough, or can make enough, to do whatever they want. It is about spell selection. Examine their spell selection and the battlefield position at the start of each magic phase and decide which spells you really want to stop. Stop those and ignore the rest. You are going to take some hurt from Dark Elf magic, focus on keeping it to survivable hurt. Additionally, pay attention as he uses his spells. If a spell you intended to stop fails to cast, or is cast against a less important target, you can move stopping something else up your priority list.
My beer ratings here are focussed on how important it is to dispel the spell and less on how useful the spell is inately. In most lores that is the same thing, but I feel that is less true for Dark Elves.


Power of Darkness - 1 beer
Casts on a 4+, generates D3+1 power dice for the caster only. So 50% chance of single dice casting, almost certain to cast when using the Sacrificial Dagger.
From the Dark Elf perspective, this spell is worth more than 1 beer. But from the defensive perspective, this is a spell you almost always ignore. As I said, you focus on the specific spells that threaten you.
About the only time to stop this spell is when cast by a level 2 that has two really really dangerous spells. Although not Dark Magic, my best example would be Pit of Shades and Unseen Lurker on turn 1 or 2. Even with the common pool, he doesn't have enough dice to cast both of those, so reducing his dice pool has meaning. A level 4 has access to enough dice all the time that he can reasonably attempt two big spells without Power of Darkness.


Chillwind - 2 beers
A basic D6 S4 magic missile, but with a bonus. Any casualties stop a unit from shooting in its next turn. Since we need to hurt most DE armies with shooting, this can be bad. It is fairly likely to get the single kill against crossbows/thunderers necessary to stop a shot. It is less likely to drop one war machine crew, but still quite possible.
I find there are usually bigger threats than Chill Wind. If cast at core shooters, I always let it go because their likely offense just isn't that high. Better that the crossbows not shoot a turn, but mostly live, than I lose half the unit to some other spell. If cast at an Organ Gun or Stone Thrower, I usually feel I have to let it go as well. The odds of all crew living are in my favor, although the odds of losing one are not trivial. If they have other good spells available, you have to play the odds.


Doombolt - 1 beer
A higher strength magic missile, but with shorter range (18 inches). Often out of range on turn 1. Examining the range at the start of the magic phase is part of deciding what spells you will stop. While it hurts more than chill wind, it still won't do a lot of damage to us. Better to lose an extra guy in a shooting unit than for the entire unit to be unable to shoot. Relatively better against other armies that have more expensive individual models, like heavy cavalry.
You might want to dispel this if it will finish off an injured Dwarf unit, or is targetted at the gyrocopter. Otherwise ignore it.


Word of Pain - 4 beers / 1 beer
The value of this spell is all about the situation. Making a shooting unit needs 6s to hit is annoying, but not the end of the world. Making Ironbreakers with Dwarf Lord that are engaged in close combat have weaponskill 1 is a disaster. This is something you usually ignore on early turns as survivable, but desperately need to stop on later turns. Worth saving spellbreakers to stop.


Bladewind - 1 beer
An odd spell. Effectively it is just a magic missile that might kill a unit champion. It could also wound a character, but that should be unlikely against Dwarfs. About as dangerous as Doombolt against us. It has better odds of taking out a war machine champion than a magic missile, but that is still unlikely.
Be sure to note the odd mechanic of this spell - close combat attacks. That means if the caster is in the front arc of the target, we get the hand-weapon-and-shield bonus against it. Also, just because it is close combat attacks, does not mean it avoids shooting randomization on war machines. War machines can be attacked in close combat, it just doesn't normally happen. Other than the one attack at the champion, this spell must randomize normally onto a war machine.
I might use dice against this spell when cast at a bolt thrower or otherwise weakened unit. But usually there are higher priority spells to stop.

Original Bladewind commentary left in just in case
Bladewind - 3 beers
An odd spell. Against most of our units, it is just a magic missile that might kill a unit champion. The problem is when they cast it at our war machines, it ignores the shooting randomization that makes magic missiles usually ineffective when cast there. You really don't want Bladewind hitting your artillery.
I might spellbreaker this if used on the Organ Gun, but probably not otherwise. I would definitely use dice against this spell anytime it targets a war machine.



Soul Stealer - 3 beers
Ignoring armour saves is bad, but S2 vs T4 reduces the damage a lot. High Elves hate this spell, it doesn't hurt us so much. Against a block of 25 Dwarfs, it should get about 4, which is survivable. The other effect is giving the caster more wounds. A high sorceress with 6 wounds doesn't die in close combat. If you have a chance to bash her over the head, don't let her heal up.
Note that the 12 inch range of this spell makes it worthless in the early turns. Until the caster is in range of a large Dwarf block, don't worry about Soul Stealer.
I would only consider spellbreaking this if I have a real chance of killing the caster that turn (which also means she doesn't have the Pendant of Kaeleth). I would like to dispel it with dice, but in most situations there are bigger threats.


Black Horror - 4 beers
Yes, the number 6 spell is nasty. BIG template bad! This will drop half a warrior block in one cast, plus maybe a few models in nearby units. It will also kill half a war machine crew, which means a tiny bit of luck could get them all. Plus it causes a panic test!
However, I have let this spell go through repeatedly. Against an elite unit that is already beat up, I almost always let it go. 15 Hammerers are still almost fully effective if reduced to size 10, which is what this spell would do on average. Even 15 Longbeards reduced to size 10 are still useful. But a unit of 25 warriors hit by Black Horror goes from 'combat threat' to 'diversionary fodder'.
Usually worth using dice to stop, possibly worth a spellbreaker.

Edited by David L, 06 January 2009 - 01:12 AM.


#2 Lord Azaghul

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 07:23 PM

Good analysis David. I do have one thought to add. Their Spell Familiar thingy – This allows them to use the Familiars line of sight AND range. I belive it must be with in 6” of the caster. This can make some of the shorter range spells a bit more of a hassle.

#3 Brodrick

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 09:28 PM

The focus familiar.

Good point.

#4 Durin the Young

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 10:48 PM

Given the sheer number of magic missile spells around <cough, daemons, cough>, investing in a master rune (Grungni I think)that gives your lads a +5 ward save v's shooting if in range of the banner is handy. Not least that in addition to the lovely magic missiles you've mentioned in the dark magic list , the dark elves also pack their repeating xbows and the reaper bolt throwers and it limits their effectiveness too making it easier to let them through.

A thing I have seen is the sacrificial dagger making the sorceresses unit a bit thin on the ground. If the situation presents, shoot the unit too and speed up the thining process. If they break and are in low enough numbers, they will carry her away with them.

#5 Torendil Zharrgrund

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 02:39 PM

A very good discussion of the dark elf spell list David, thanks for doing that.

You are right to look at the spells from the potential danger against us rather then from the main powerlevel.

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#6 LF - Kevin B

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 12:57 PM

Very well made post and this will be linked to the other spellreaker guides shortly drinks.gif

You are right about the number of power dice they can get hold of that is why I like to stop the Power of Darkness spell to limit what they can do with their normal amount of dice. A level 4 + 2 =8 PD, take away a few trying to cast the spell and you should be able to take the rest. So for that reason I would personally rate power of darkness 3 beers for what it can do to help the dark elf magic phse, how easy they can get it (they auot get it) and for how easy it can cast. But thats just my view

#7 Torendil Zharrgrund

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 01:04 PM

I undestand both sides of this argument.

If you try to stop the PoD spell you can potentially limit their magic phase. The main problem is that becuase the spell is so easy to get and cast it's hard to stop. You can stop it one or two times, but they will still cast it a third time. At that moment you have lost precious DD to a spell that "will" be cast no matter what.
I prefer to let them cast PoD and then use my DD to stop the really nasty spells. Even if PoD succeeds, they still need to roll their casting value for the spell they want to cast next. I like keeping my DD for those spells.
(This changes however if you have a high amount of DD or dispel quality. If you have 8 DD (anvil+MroBalance) you can risk throwing one or two dice a turn against PoD, and if you have high dispel quality in the form of +1 or +2 to dispel throwing that one dice against PoD becomes a valid choice.)

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#8 David L

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 04:14 PM

I played my first couple of games against DE stopping the power dice spell. It didn't go well. When I switched to paying careful attention to his individual spells and normally ignoring the power dice spell, the magic hurt less. On the other hand, I haven't faced the same list build as those first couple of games again, so that may have had more impact.

#9 Dark Dwarves

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 11:58 AM

In my opinion, as a DE player as well, I agree with Lord Firmshaft that the threat level of the Power of Darkness Spell should be raised.

The new DE magic phase is all about overrun. Make the casting value so high they can't use dice to dispel your spells. Once your scrolls are gone, so are you. Those that can limit the number of dice in my casting pool have faired better then those that didn't.

The Dagger is just an awesome item as it keeps adding PD. It's basiclly a 7 point power stone that can be used for every spell the caster has.

The Focus Familiar is also great. You can hide a wizard in a forest or behind a hill and still cast magic spells. Respectively, It can add 6" to the range of all spells. It can even allow a wizard in combat to continue to cast (until GW writes a FAQ to fix this).

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#10 Lord Azaghul

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 02:39 PM

Last night I played the DE versus my empire. The DE was a magic heavy army – that ripped the empire to shreds. I would like to add a few things to this

Always stop the Power of Darkness
The DE player will always throw 2 Dice at this spell, if he goes off – the worst he can get is 2 dice the best is 4. Him throwing 2 Dice makes this much harder to stop, eating up your dice or scrolls early – but if you stop this on you’ll severely limit there magic ability that trun

Chill wind: the solid danger of this is the low casting value, very good for the casting cost – will stop your shooting and do wounds

Word of Pain: Last night I saw this combined with Blade Wind. If this spell goes off your CC units will be hitting opponents on 5+, and being hit on 3+. This is also on the low end of casting for the nastiness it delivers

Blade Wind does 3d6 W4 S4 CC attacks – THIS WILL BE USED TO KILL WM CREW. It does not randomize. When you’d in conjuction with Word of pain – very dangerious, also a lowish caster.

Also keep in mind the spell familiar – read the rules carefully – the DE player lay a different token every turn – which means the caster never exposes themselves and has a rediculas range and line of sight

Edited by Lord Azaghul, 23 January 2009 - 05:59 PM.


#11 daunlander

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 05:43 PM

Thanks for the good post David L. I've only played against DE once, and I was playing OK in a team game [DE & Skaven vs OK & Dwarves]. The DE player was a weak player, but that Power of Darkness really hurt us. Like Dark Dwarves said the DE magic is about overrun, and those extra PD let him use 5+ on some spells. I agree that you should always dispel it on Level 3+ wizards, and consider your options on lower wizards [what spell do the have, what situation, etc...].

#12 danny-d-b

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 11:20 PM

one thing I would like to know is this
suposidly dark elf 'wizzards' take a wound I belive for every dice left in there power pool at the end of the phase, anything we can do to stop the magic phase, other than hopeing the misscast and end the magic phase, hurting them?

I mean letting them cast the spell that gives them extra power dice might be a good idea as it increase the chance of a misscast- but how likely is that to happen

I'm sorry for anything I've got wrong, I've not played the new DEs and only going of what I read in a WD a few months ago

#13 Rune of Might

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Posted 24 January 2009 - 05:34 AM

So glad that I checked the forums tonight, I have a tournament tomorrow and there are going to be 7 DE armies.

#14 Lord Azaghul

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 02:32 PM

QUOTE (danny-d-b @ Jan 23 2009, 05:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
one thing I would like to know is this
suposidly dark elf 'wizzards' take a wound I belive for every dice left in there power pool at the end of the phase, anything we can do to stop the magic phase, other than hopeing the misscast and end the magic phase, hurting them?

I mean letting them cast the spell that gives them extra power dice might be a good idea as it increase the chance of a misscast- but how likely is that to happen

I'm sorry for anything I've got wrong, I've not played the new DEs and only going of what I read in a WD a few months ago


The rules on this are kind of lame - they only have to use the "extra" dice they created with the new spell, not all the dice And since it counts as a free spell that all have in addition to their other spells, they simply use those "extra" dice to cast their next spell.

#15 danny-d-b

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 03:52 PM

QUOTE (Lord Azaghul @ Jan 26 2009, 02:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (danny-d-b @ Jan 23 2009, 05:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
one thing I would like to know is this
suposidly dark elf 'wizzards' take a wound I belive for every dice left in there power pool at the end of the phase, anything we can do to stop the magic phase, other than hopeing the misscast and end the magic phase, hurting them?

I mean letting them cast the spell that gives them extra power dice might be a good idea as it increase the chance of a misscast- but how likely is that to happen

I'm sorry for anything I've got wrong, I've not played the new DEs and only going of what I read in a WD a few months ago


The rules on this are kind of lame - they only have to use the "extra" dice they created with the new spell, not all the dice And since it counts as a free spell that all have in addition to their other spells, they simply use those "extra" dice to cast their next spell.



thats a load of X$?@ (you get the idea)

I'm realy starting to hate GWs

so unless you miscast on your next spell and end the magic phase, then that rule is useless, what a waste of ink and time people even thinking of it!

#16 Lord Azaghul

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 04:21 PM

Pretty much! I firmly believe the DE are going to be the bad boys of fantasy for quite a long time.

#17 danny-d-b

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 04:28 PM

QUOTE (Lord Azaghul @ Jan 26 2009, 04:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Pretty much! I firmly believe the DE are going to be the bad boys of fantasy for quite a long time.


I don't know

what with some very nasty deamon armys I've been looking at!




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