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Spellbreaker Guide - Gut Magic


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#1 Ravenmane

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 01:02 AM

I've played the Ogres frequently, and their magic mechanics are very different from the Basic Rulebook. It's a lore that focuses heavily on Remains in Play spells and a few effective attack spells, but it's primary focus is to overcome the main flaws in Ogres themselves - a lack of defense, armor and combat resolution.
Keep in mind that their whole lore can be cast on a 3+. In many cases, Ogre players can attempt to cast spells on one Power Dice each to get as much mileage out of their spells and negate the risk of miscasts. If they end up rolling a five or a six, then you'll be prompted to throw two dispel dice for one power dice. If this pattern keeps repeating, then there's a good chance that they can get a crucial Trollguts or Toothcracker off through your defenses, even though you have a dispel dice advantage. So, I'd treat them much like Vampire players - only worry about spells that are going to directly affect your units while engaged in combat. Ogres can also cast multiple Remains in Play spells.
The tradeoff in this is that many of the Ogre spells have a chance of wounding their Butcher, so I frequently allow them to cast their spells on unengaged units with the hopes of wounding their casters. Their lore is very short ranged, so expect friendly buff spells to be cast primarily on the Butcher's unit or one right next to them.

Lastly, DON'T FORGET YOUR MAGIC PHASE!! Go on ahead and announce it out loud. You'll feel pretty stupid doing it, but it's the best way I've found to remind myself that I have Power Dice of my own to use to get rid of Remains in Play spells. A Magic heavy list will have many RiP spells on the board, and it'll take a 7 to dispel one- relatively easy to accomplish with 2 Power dice. The Master Rune of Valaya may also be worth looking at, since those RiP spells will go 'poof' once they engage your units.

Now, onto the lore list:

Bloodgruel - On a 2+ the Caster heals a wound. On a 1 he wounds himself. Not a big deal of a spell, but it becomes more important during the late game after a couple self-inflicted wounds. I've had casters attempt to cast this spell early on a Wounded butcher to sucker me into dropping more dispel dice than I should. 1- 2 beers. guinesssmilie.gif

Braingobbler- Force an enemy unit to make a Panic test. This isn't something we typically worry about, but a favorite item of Butchers is the Skullmantle, which will reduce the target unit's Leadership by 1. Be prepared for Leadership 8! 1-2 beers. guinesssmilie.gif

Bullgorger - An Ogre unit gains +1 Strength. This bonus will also improve Bull Charges, which is an Ogre Player's answer to evening out combat resolution in their favor. This is important to dispel on the first round of combat, but afterwards you've more important spells to deal with. 2 Beers. guinesssmilie.gif

Bonecruncher - The magic missile spell of the Lore. This spell ignores armor saves, so it has some potential for hurt. 3 beers. guinesssmilie.gif

Toothcracker - my personal worst spell in the lore. This grants an Ogre unit +1 Toughness and Stubborn. Suddenly those Ogres can ignore combat resolution! Expect the General's unit to be targeted by this spell frequently. 4 beers- This is something you need to hang onto Dispel dice for. guinesssmilie.gif

Trollguts - Grants an Ogre unit Regeneration and MR 2, like a Stone Troll. MR2 means nothing to us, but Regenerating Ogres can be the bane of a shooting army. 2 beers for a 'balanced' army, 3 for gunlines! guinesssmilie.gif









#2 LF - Kevin B

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 07:31 AM

Thanks for that and it has been linked in the school of battle spellbreaker guide.

Thanks once more drinks.gif

Just a few more lores to go....

#3 Gortrek

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 04:30 PM

Im going to add my opinions to each of these spells, see them in the colour red


QUOTE (Ravenmane @ Aug 7 2008, 02:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Now, onto the lore list:

Bloodgruel - On a 2+ the Caster heals a wound. On a 1 he wounds himself. Not a big deal of a spell, but it becomes more important during the late game after a couple self-inflicted wounds. I've had casters attempt to cast this spell early on a Wounded butcher to sucker me into dropping more dispel dice than I should. 1- 2 beers. guinesssmilie.gif

Not too worrying, but dispel it later on in the game.

Braingobbler- Force an enemy unit to make a Panic test. This isn't something we typically worry about, but a favorite item of Butchers is the Skullmantle, which will reduce the target unit's Leadership by 1. Be prepared for Leadership 8! 1-2 beers. guinesssmilie.gif

Alot nastyer if the butcher is with a tyrant with daemon killer scars - -3 Ld. If he is with a tyrant dispel, if not use your judgement.

Bullgorger - An Ogre unit gains +1 Strength. This bonus will also improve Bull Charges, which is an Ogre Player's answer to evening out combat resolution in their favor. This is important to dispel on the first round of combat, but afterwards you've more important spells to deal with. 2 Beers. guinesssmilie.gif

Wait for your turn and use power dice (yes - we still get them) to dispell this unless he has declared a charge with that unit

Bonecruncher - The magic missile spell of the Lore. This spell ignores armor saves, so it has some potential for hurt. 3 beers. guinesssmilie.gif

Very weak strength though (i think) so not as bad but still got some potential.

Toothcracker - my personal worst spell in the lore. This grants an Ogre unit +1 Toughness and Stubborn. Suddenly those Ogres can ignore combat resolution! Expect the General's unit to be targeted by this spell frequently. 4 beers- This is something you need to hang onto Dispel dice for. guinesssmilie.gif

Can be extremely dangerous - 3 wounds and lots of attacks means that these ogres are staying in combat for quite a while.

Trollguts - Grants an Ogre unit Regeneration and MR 2, like a Stone Troll. MR2 means nothing to us, but Regenerating Ogres can be the bane of a shooting army. 2 beers for a 'balanced' army, 3 for gunlines! guinesssmilie.gif

Just take a rune of flaming on a cannon or BT when fighting ogres. Then see the look on his face as his spell does nothing and that butcher takes an automatic wound (which BTW cannot be regenerated by the first spell)


All my advice has been added drinks.gif

Edited by Gortrek, 07 August 2008 - 04:31 PM.


#4 SuperArchMegalon

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 05:07 AM

QUOTE (Gortrek @ Aug 7 2008, 12:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Braingobbler- Force an enemy unit to make a Panic test. This isn't something we typically worry about, but a favorite item of Butchers is the Skullmantle, which will reduce the target unit's Leadership by 1. Be prepared for Leadership 8! 1-2 beers. guinesssmilie.gif

Alot nastyer if the butcher is with a tyrant with daemon killer scars - -3 Ld. If he is with a tyrant dispel, if not use your judgement.


Not quite, all the Daemon-Killer scars is s Terror. What you may be thinking of is that having the Butcher in the Tyrant's unit makes the terror tests at -1 Ld. Also the Brahmir Statue makes all psychology tests by Skaven and Chaos at -1 Ld.

#5 Gortrek

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 02:15 PM

Hmm, so what is it that makes you at -3?

#6 BLOOD AXE

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 05:19 PM

QUOTE (Gortrek @ Aug 8 2008, 10:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hmm, so what is it that makes you at -3?


Dark Elf Doom & Darkness. Nothing I know about from Ogres. Alot of Ogre Generals I know either go with 3 Butchers or none. One or two is waste vs. Dwarves, & they know it.

#7 Gortrek

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 06:51 PM

Ill need to look at my friends list. It may just be against skaven but im sure they can get you at -3 Ld.

#8 Mordrek Grudgebreaker

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 05:17 AM

The Brahmir Statue gives Skaven and Chaos a -3 to Ld tests. Against Chaos, it's not very useful since they have so much ItP stuff now and BoC have low Leadership anyway.

#9 Corwin

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 08:31 PM

QUOTE (BLOOD AXE @ Aug 8 2008, 07:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Dark Elf Doom & Darkness.


Doom & Darkness is a spell from the Lore of Death, not from Dark Magic, although the Dark Elves use it frequently.

#10 SuperArchMegalon

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 09:21 PM

QUOTE (Gortrek @ Aug 8 2008, 02:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ill need to look at my friends list. It may just be against skaven but im sure they can get you at -3 Ld.


Sorry, it was a typo. It is -3 Ld, and if you get a Slaughtermaster you can combine that with the Skullmantle for -4 Ld against Skaven/Chaos - that would ruin someone's day. Too bad it requires a 3,000 point game sad.gif

#11 Ursun

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 10:39 AM

absolutely great guide, thank you very much for helping me in future battles :P

#12 Khazadson

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 11:33 AM

I'm going to lock this, obviously for threadomancy.

If anyone wants to make a gut magic guide a little more relevant to 8th ed. please feel free.




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