16 replies to this topic

[danny-d-b]

My main rival plays this so my elector count and his tomb king must hate each other now. lol

Anyway from my point of view the lore of incantations.


The thing to note against tomb kings I the fact all there 'wizards' count as casting a bound level spell (level is XD6 depending on who it is)rather than a actual spell so there is no miss casts or irristable forces- that’s both good and bad.
Second is that all but 1 hero/lord can cast magic, yep tomb princes and tomb kings can also cast two spells of the list .
Also the 'wizards' have to cast in a set order, I can't remember exactly what the order is but its needs be the same every turn.

In terms of dice this is what each modal gives.

Tomb prince-power level D6- own unit only- 1 incantation a turn.
Tomb king- power level-D6-own unit or 6"- 2 incantations a turn (may be same).
Liche priest- power level 2D6-range of spell-1 incantation a turn.
Liche high priest- power level 3D6-range of spell- 2 incantations a turn.

Incantations

Incantation of Vengeance 2*
This is a magic missile that has an 18 inch range and does D6 4 hits,
not going to do a lot of damage but may be useful to stop if it takes a rank of you targets your war machines.

Incantation of Righteous Smiting 1-5*
This can be cast on either a missile unit or a unit in combat, it either allows them to shot in the magic phase or have 1 attack per modal in the shooting phase, depending on what its cast on it could do very little or a lot, if cast on a unit of 3 chariots not in combat then leave it (3 bow shots aren’t going to hurt) however if its cast on the screaming skull or a nasty unit in combat then dispell it as it could do a lot of damage.

Incantation of Summoning 3*
This is the tome king bring back the dead spell, unlike the VC spell it can only bring back modals not create new units, most units get D3 wounds back, tomb guard get D6 and warriors get 2D6 and pick the highest back.
can be nasty if they use it on warriors and get an extra rank or something similar.

Incantation of Urgency 5*
As most people have said before me movement spells can win game, this allows the unit to move again.
Stop it at all cost as most good players will use it to set up flank chargers, and as most people will tell you getting chariots/ushanti/bone giant to the flank hurts so watch it.
You can let one unit use it the get them out of place and dipel the rest but most of the time stop it .

Also I’m going to put one last bit to this.
That is the Casket of Souls, the most dangerous bit of magic kit the tomb kings can bring.
Counts as a bound item which is cast as power level 2D6
what it does is every unit (not the tomb kings them selves) have to 2D6+2-units Ld in wounds with no armour saves, stop it at all cost.


Edited for spelling and grammar - LF

[LF - Kevin B]

Thanks for that - good effort (just need to work on your spelling and grammer


Anyway added to the school of battle and thanks for your time

[Cadillac]

(...)That is the Casket of Souls, the most dangerous bit of magic kit the tomb kings can bring.
Counts as a bound item which is cast as power level 2D6
what it does is every unit (not the tomb kings them selves) have to 2D6+2-units Ld in wounds with no armour saves, stop it at all cost.

Just a little correct, it should be: "every enemy unit that can draw a line of sight to the Casket itself."

I've got a tactical question about that one, you say it's a dangerous item, but 2D6+2 is average 9, minus (our dwarfish ) Ld 9 it's 0 (ZERO). Is it really so dangerous for us? Please explain if I'm missing something.

Greetz

Edited by cadillac, 11 July 2008 - 11:28 AM.

[LF - Kevin B]

Overall its OK but if your opponent get a few good rolls, your missile units, combat troops and the like all get hit. losing a point of rank bonus or your shooting weakened can all hurt. Its not a dead cert but you can only ride your luck for so long...

[Tungdil Goldhand]

Oh, this is something I could have done. I have the TK armybook, and possibly want to start an army of them.
Would you like me to supply more info, the magic-order for example?

Something I quicly like to comment on:

Incantation of Urgency 5*
As most people have said before me movement spells can win game, this allows the unit to move again.
Stop it at all cost as most good players will use it to set up flank chargers, and as most people will tell you getting chariots/ushanti/bone giant to the flank hurts so watch it.
You can let one unit use it the get them out of place and dipel the rest but most of the time stop it .

This is their march move. Undead (TK undead , no idea about VC) cannot make march moves. They need to use magic for an additional 4". The only trick with extra movement is making the flyers fly twice - 40".

Edited by Tungdil Goldhand, 11 July 2008 - 12:20 PM.

[Gortrek]

The order of TK magic is unchangeable and always in this order:
All non-LP and TK/TP bound items
Tomb prince incantations and bound items
Tomb King incantations and bound items
Liche Priest incantations and bound items
Liche High Priest incantations and bound items
Casket Of Souls magic



@Tungdil VC can march if there is something with the vampire rule (black coaches, vargrulfs?, Vampires) nearby

Edited by Gortrek, 12 July 2008 - 02:29 PM.

[Tungdil Goldhand]

Alright. My opinion, then;

Incantation of Vengaence (MM) 1 beer
Taking into account the strength is the same as our thoughness, this shouldn't do much harm, also the fact this is only one D6. I'd say that the TK player is trying to get rid of your dispell dice here, before doing his actual, stronger magic.

Incantation fo Regious Smiting (extra shooting) 2 or 4 beers
TK undead always hit on 5+, so this might be troubling for us. Again, we have high T though, so I don't think this needs a spellbreaker. However, if it's the Skull Catapult (s, could be two of them in 2,000 pt game - 4 piles of skulls on our troops!), I'd pay close attention and stop this from happening when your unit got hit badly already at the first hit.

Incantation of Summoning 3 or 4 beers
This is wat Undead are about; waking the dead. I'd throw my dispell dices on this one. The TK player can resurrect (so bring back the dead, not raise new ones! Only the Vampire Counts can do so.) alot more Tomb Gaurd or even more Skeletons than recovering Tomb Scorpions for example, but I wouldn't pay attention to the Skeletons too much. Tomb Gaurds might be troubling, and I don't think it'd be a good thing when undead scorpions begin to resurrect.

Incantation of Urgency (extra movement) 1 or 5 beers
I'd personally let most extra movements pass, since they're actually their march moves. Only when it comes down to charging or really great distances (40" flying), I'd stop this magic immediately.

There are also a couple of magic items that can do the same magic, or the Tomb Princes and Kings can. I'd not use a spellbreaker on these, maximal one DD per incantation.

I just had to redo it

Edited by Tungdil Goldhand, 12 July 2008 - 08:42 PM.

[Gortrek]

Note that he can only ressurect what you have killed, not like VC who can ressurect more than the unit starting numbers.

[Tungdil Goldhand]

Forgot to metion, I do now.

[Mathurian]

Thanks a lot, I've yet to play tomb kings, but hopefully now I'll be ready when I do

[Caneghem]

About the casket of souls... They can be the bane of your warmachine crews, who tend to have good line of sight of the battlefield and it only takes 2 wounds to reduce, or 3 wounds to negate the unit's effectiveness. What I'm not sure about is whether the machine will take wounds from the CoS, or just the crew? Is there still randomization?

[Tungdil Goldhand]

I think there´s randomazation, yes. Otherwise, only the crew is affected, since the Casket has to do with mind stuff.

*looked it up, the armybook doesn't mention anything about WM*

[Gaulric Axerender]

a tomb king player and i were having a conversation the other day about our magic runes versus their magic, and the spell eater rune came up. Can it be used on the casket of souls? we both didnt have much of an idea on it as we could see arguements for both sides.

[shavixmir]

The incantation of vengeance is rubbish. Ignore it. If the TK player is casting it, it's only to draw out your dispel dice.

The incantation of smiting is nasty. Archers can shoot twice per round (so what, a dwarf is T4), but so can the catapult. It's not the most devastating of weapons against dwarfs though, but a -1 panic test can ruin a well thought out plan.
The incantation of smiting gets especially nasty when a Tomb King is yielding the Destroyer of eternities. Stop that at all costs!

The incantation of summoning should generally be ignored when it's being cast on skelleton units and such tripe. But it can rebuild captapults, Ushabti and chariot units. Best to keep an eye on that.

The incantation of urgency is the engine of the Tomb King army. No TK's can't march, but a chariot unit moves 8" and with this spell on it, charges an extra 16". That's an effective range of 24". The carrion have an effective range of 40"!
Whole units can reform and charge because of this spell.
Don't forget, a Tomb King in a chariot unit has two attempts at firing off this spell. Put a liche priest in the same vicinity, the chances are this chariot unit is going to charge you.
Now, if there's also an "arc of the covenance" on the board with a skull thrower in its vicinity, you quickly realise that magic missiles and summoning isn't your greatest concern. You're basically looking at 3 attempts at being charged over 24" with a nasty chariot unit, being pummeled to death by a repeater stone thrower (which causes panic tests) or being disintegrated by the Casket.

The casket only serves to draw out dispel scrolls and dice, so that the engine (the movement) can keep going.

[Hirn23]

One thing i haven't seen mentioned here is the Hieratic Jar.
(mind you i can't see past my beard at the best of times)

Any Tomb Kings player worth his salt will have this item stashed on a Liche Priest
somewhere in the army.

The jar allows the Liche Priest to cast an additional incantation, much like a normal wizard with
a power stone but no chance of miscast/irresitable force and as with all TK magic the incantation is
always successful.

Be very aware of this item, because just when you think you've stopped all his magic...

Once you've faced against a few TK magic phases they become very predictable,
you can pre-empt what the TK player is trying to achieve and focus on stopping his main objective.
You know exactly how many dice he can throw at his spells, ration your dice accordingly and hope he rolls low.

Also a Gyro into a liche is often not a bad gamble (3's & 3's to kill) should your opponent leave his casters in a precarious position

Cheers

[Asator]

The basics of protecting yourself against TK magic is realising which spells are important to stop and which aren't. Most TK players have quite a potent magic fase and you won't be able to stop every single spell. If you are able to stop his important spells at key moments, your opponent is in trouble.
A way of indirect magic defence might be using the rune of slowness: when your opponent tries to make a charge in the magic fase which will require almost all of his charge distance, you can safely let the spell go of in the knowlegde his unit will end stranded in front of your battle line, ready to be charged in your turn (and remember, undead can't flee).
The downside is that this will only work so many times before your opponent won't fall for it anymore.

[Ravenmane]

This dirty trick was sprung on me by our local TK player.

Skeleton block charges my lord's unit, I naturally hold. Skeleton champion issues a challenge, which my general accepts and beats the snot out of the champ. He then casts the Invocation, which starts with replacing command units first! so the champ gets back up, and reissues another challenge.
By recycling his unit champion, it gives the TK a chance to stall our characters while providing endless bodyguards for their casters.

Edited by Ravenmane, 08 August 2008 - 04:26 AM.