[BLOOD AXE]

This is for the work-in-progress Dwarf Guide. Please give advice as you would for a completely new Dwarf player. The Daemon Slayers battlefield role, advantages/disadvantages, equipment,rune combos,etc.
Remember he can't be the army General.
Just the basics for new players.

Thanks.

[wicked_fool]

Advantage= Unbreakble, xtra unit of slayers

Disadvantages= No save, slow movement

Equipment= slayer axes are nice but you can buy runes on them, more down here.

Rune Combos= I like MR of alric, Rune of Fury and Rune of Cleaving

Hope this information is usefull

Greetz

[Enakan]

My pleasure! I'll try to follow this exactly, to the point, and hope I don't use any BIG words! Any questions throw a tankard my way, bonk me upside the 'ed, and I'll explain further!

The battlefield role of the Daemonslayer?

1. To furnish you, the general, an extra unit of Trollslayers, led by him or another Slayer character. The character adds the "UMPH" to the unit for combat resolution. Keep one or two Giantslayers in his unit to accept challenges, so as to let the Daemonslayer whip on the opposing troopers.

2. Can be a "bodyguard" for missile units or war machines, to help them fend off ambushers, tunnellers, flyers, and other units that can threaten them. He MUST be kept within 5" of the unit though, preferably back and/or to the side, so he cannot be targeted.

Advantages?

1. Intimidation. Many folks will try to manuever wide around him. His reputation goes a long ways!

2. Combat resolution. He inflicts those extra hits so his unit can win combat.

3. Unbreakable, essential versus fear and terror causers. Anchors flanks so the rest of the army can continue with the mission. Or strides, okay, crawls up the middle to force combat.

4. As a lone character, he has that NICE 360 degree charge arc.

Disadvantages?

1. Yep, he is slow. If he is in a unit they may be avoided by canny foes, who keep out of that 90 degree charge arc.

2. If running as a lone character, can be targeted by spells or missile fire if you are not careful. Heavens and Life lore look out!

3. Needs runic weapons to survive, slayer axes just not enough, since he cannot have any other runic items.

Equipment/Runic Combos?

I'm putting these together, since he needs runes to be effective and survive.

Slayer axes can be "fluffy" and add to the flavor of the army or his unit of Trollslayers. But if he is hit first by chargers, or in the second round of melee on by higher initiative foes, he goes down fast.

1. Master Rune of Swiftness. You can add some lesser runes here also, to make him more effective. Therefore, I recommend the following:

a. Rune of Cleaving
b. Two Runes of Cleaving
c. Rune of Snorri and Cleaving
d. Rune of Striking and Cleaving
e. Rune of Fury and Cleaving
f. Two Runes of Fury
g. Rune of Fire with any one of the above

To be honest, there are other runes that can also be effective, but I'm going for cheap affordable combos. I believe for the Daemonslayer, the MR of Swiftness is essential. Unless you team him up with a Dragonslayer, who has it for HIS runic weapon. Keep them as a dynamic duo in this case, in a Trollslayer unit with a five man frontage. Again, one or two Giantslayers to accept challenges. And let the characters go to work!

[Thorm]

I don`t use deamon slayers- they are too expansive and take the lord choice. Good prepared Dragon slayer costs about the same points as a naked Deamon Slayer

[BLOOD AXE]

Ok,lets assume this is a 2K game. Thats what most new players will use,2K or less.
This will be your only Lord choice. Is the DaemonSlayer good as yor only Lord,why/why not?

[Gamingdevil]

Ok,lets assume this is a 2K game. Thats what most new players will use,2K or less.
This will be your only Lord choice. Is the DaemonSlayer good as yor only Lord,why/why not?

No he isn't.
Most people want some bang for there buck and expect a lord to be nasty, this guy wants to die and with that many points roaming around on an unarmored Lord then he will. He can't stand up to those tough lords of other races which is what people want.

[mad ulric]

Enakan wrote;
1. Master Rune of Swiftness. You can add some lesser runes here also, to make him more effective. Therefore, I recommend the following:

a. Rune of Cleaving
b. Two Runes of Cleaving
c. Rune of Snorri and Cleaving
d. Rune of Striking and Cleaving
e. Rune of Fury and Cleaving
f. Two Runes of Fury
g. Rune of Fire with any one of the above

To be honest, there are other runes that can also be effective, but I'm going for cheap affordable combos.

Aren't all of those combos you suggest illegal Page 43 of the new army book under 'Number of runes'. one rune per category up to three per character. Therefore two runes of cleaving is not allowed as is RoC plus Master Rune of Swiftness, as they are both from the same category. Couldn't have rune of fire either with any in your list.

[fibonacci]

Try getting the book and reading it for yourself.

You can have 1 ITEM from each category, each with 3 runes on it. Your total number of runes is limited by the points allowed for that model.

[Druin Oldanvil]

As a tactical point, he's useful to protect warmachines of flying enemy units.

Not a good choice against woodies nor any other heavy-shooting army.

[BLOOD AXE]

Mad Ulric,no offense,but have you read page 43?
All the combos Enakan suggested are indeed legal. They were even legal in 6th edition.You can have Rune of Cleaving x3 if you want.
Its "number of runic ITEMS" not "number of runes", a little different.

Ok,now thats sorted out, back to the topic.

[Ruben]

Deamonslayers used to be 210 points , nobody used them those days,now they are 110 points and i never saw anybody use them either.

With dragonslayers having T5 now i think i will wait till they lower the point cost to ,lets say 80-75 points to use a deamonslayer.(maybe next edition?).

[xmbk]

Try getting the book and reading it for yourself.

He's clearly got the book, and simply misread it. I'm pretty sure that's happened to everyone who's picked up a GW book

I'd hate to think beardlings were afraid to come here for a pint Grumble in char, don't be rude OOC.

[Thunderer]

If I was going for a slayer themed army I might take one. There are several other combination you could run that are equally effective and cheap especially if you use him as a flanker/bodyguard for a unit with your general in it... give your general the swiftness and then kit up you flanking "butcher" with 2 RofSpeed + RofFire/Burning. Keeps him cheap but makes him fast. Tuck him in beside your thane and tucked under the BSB missile protection and it is a day of butt whuppings.

[mad ulric]

thanks for putting me right. I'm new to the dwarf army. I realised almost after posting my mistake.

I hope to be as patient with beardlings when I am an experienced dwarf player.

[BLOOD AXE]

thanks for putting me right.  I'm new to the dwarf army.  I realised almost after posting my mistake.  

I hope to be as patient with beardlings when I am an experienced dwarf player.

There is an "EDIT" button,top right corner.
You might want to change that signature.
"Well..I told you so..." Doesn't sound very friendly and certainly won't make people be patient with you.

[Kazadvorn]

Daemonslayer - The only entry where GW really dropped the ball.

I can't see any reason to take one - ever really.

He can't be the general, so at 2000pts you've used up your lord slot for a character that can't be a general, and can only joint units of Slayers.

If you just want an extra unit of Slayers, then a DragonSlayer will do the job, cheaper, and without using up that all important Lord slot.

Now, if there were a new "Slayer Army" variant list included in the Dwarf Army Book, where the DaemonSlayer could be a general, and maybe even take some Runic talismans, that would be different.

[The Dammaz Kronik]

In less then a mega battle game, there is no reason to ever take a daemonslayer. These guys are 110 points naked, and do EXACTLY the same thing as a Dragonslayer, only having advantages by one wound, 1 pt WS,I... not exactly worth the 70 pts on a char going t odie anyways.

And certainly not worth your Lord slot...

However in a Mega game or something where taking one is fluffy or fun, I would actually suggest the MR smiting, fury combo. This gives him 5 Attacks each doing D6 wounds, and at WS7. His Slayer skill makes sure he always raises S to match T of enemy, so 4+ to wound should result in several D6 wounding hits per turn.

On a daemonslayer the rune of Smiting makes great sense too- he kills big things. Without this Rune, he will be severly limited in what he can actually kill, making him a expensive roadblock for WS3 units. A Dragonslayer can do that job for 60 points with a Rune of striking for WS 7, and a bit of defense against WS3 troops.

Mr Swiftness is a standard kit it seems for Slayer heroes, but I always say if they use their 360 charge, and position well, they dont need it since they actually have good I for Dwarves. They end up swinging first against most foes but elves in second turns.

One thing I NEVER do when playing Slayer characters of any kind is go after enemy Heroes.

We have Lords and Thanes that can achieve 1+ armor saves, Have T5, and can have 5 or 4+ wards. Compared to these Great weapon wielding Heroes, Slayers are just not survivable enough to actually do anything against heroes of the enemy.

Our Mighty Thanes are what really scare people nowdays Im afraid. Lords they avoid, Daemonslayers are wasted points, Dragonslayers are not armored and cant stand a charge from Heroes, Runesmiths and Runelords are not high Attacks enough to scratch characters in 1-2 turns.

They cant avoid our blocks all day however, and this is why they hate Thanes. Thanes turn really strong infantry into charge breaking infantry.

Daemonslayers are few and far between nowdays. Most must have marched off and found their Doom, leaving many Dragonslayers behind still wishing to prove themselves or meet Doom trying.

Back to my main topic, Daemonslayers without Mr Smiting really have no set job in an Army, so are a hard choice to make when they crew up a Lord slot.

With the Mr Smiting, they should be able to kill most large monsters in a single combat, and will crush whole armies of Ogres or the like. They could prove useful against Chaos hordes as well, and would make very short work of the new Giant of most armies.

Remember, against large foes you likely are touching only one, and will kill it quite easily first turn, negating strikes back if you maintain Inititive by charging in.

Still the problems remain. M3, No armor, over 200 points if fully Runed, and limited ability to join units. Did I mention M3??? :roll:


Bottom line-- Dragonslayers are a much better choice if you want a Slayer Hero.

I bet if they had included the slayer skills and maybe had a playable version of the Slayer list in the new book Daemonslayers would have a Rightful place back on the battlefield. As it stands the game would have to be 5k before Id consider one(and then just for fluffy fun!)


Cheers!


TDK

[Thunderer]

Yeah, GW did bungle pretty dramatically. Case in point they could have stated that a Demon Slayer could be an army general, he is a lord level character after all and if a Demonslayer is the General a Dragon Slayer can be upgraded for free to BSB.

The current list doesn't roll any of the Storm of Chaos slayer list or abilities into the core dwarven army and slayer characters. A nerfed version would have enabled GW to retire that one portion of the SofC book, increase Dwarf book sales and toned down some of the power house abilities inherent in that list.

Instead once again they took the easy route. But a Demon Slayer with one slayer ability would have been beautiful. Having a "hammer" unit of Brotherhood troll slayer upgrade for his body guard would have been cake. Additionally force you to take a Demonslayer if you wanted to be able to give each TS block a Doomseeker akin to the ratling gun upgrade or fanatic upgrade for Night Goblins.

But as stated they really aren't all that great because they have no range, a 6" move on the charge, and zero armor. Best thin you can do is run them near the MRofGrungni coverage as a flanker or keep them in a woodline to protect some very valuable flanks/artillery. Other than that they are there just for fluff.

Now in a SofC list different story but that is enough thread jacking.

[Legio]

If you are outlining information for beardlings, then you should mention that Daemon/Dragon Slayers lose their "Slayer Weapon" ability if they take Weapon Runes per the BRB regarding magic weapons (i.e. can't be mixed with mundane weapons). If they have a runed weapon, it's the only one that they can use. They also cannot take any runes other than Weapon Runes (no Runic Talismans, no Runic Armor).

Since we are talking ONLY about the Daemon Slayer, I won't discuss the Dragon Slayer. IRT the Daemon Slayer...

- You lose your Lord choice; however, several players take a runed up Thane in place of a Dwarf/Rune Lord anyways so that may or may not be a disadvantage.

- Good for a THEMED army if you want a lot of Slayer Units.

- Unlike the other Lord choices, holds no significant advantage over it's Hero counterpart (Dragon Slayer).

NOTE: These tactics work for a Dragon Slayer as well as the Daemon Slayer.

- If a DS is taken, they work well as independent flank holders. Limit their exposure to shooting and set them to charge any flankers that might make their way in.

- Have them hang back to protect warmachines and ranged infantry from infiltrators.

- See previous posts about joining a Slayer Unit with 2 Giant Slayers to accept challenges.

[BLOOD AXE]

Here are my basic thoughts on the Daemonslayer.
1)The worst Lord choice to take. Unless you are trying for a Slayer themeor taking alot of Slayer units.
2) No ward or armor save. So he can be vulnerable.
3)Can only take weapon runes,but then loses his "slayer axes" ability.
4)Can't be the General,so no LD 10. Can only join Slayer units,or be by himself.

He would be the last Lord I would pick.I can see him being useful vs. Ogre Kingdoms with MR of Smiting though.